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| Beginners Questions Poker beginner ?
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07-22-2012, 08:50 AM
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#1
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journeyman
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 251
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What are hands which doesn't play well OOP ?
What are hands which doesn't play well OOP ? Why ? How you determine them ?
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07-22-2012, 09:06 AM
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#2
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Who killed me?
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Howard Lederer's pocket
Posts: 4,506
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Re: What are hands which doesn't play well OOP ?
There are no specifics. Its just a fact that its harder to play any hand OOP than IP. With any two cards you would rather have position than not have it wouldn't you?
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07-22-2012, 02:29 PM
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#3
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old hand
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,353
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Re: What are hands which doesn't play well OOP ?
All hands are harder to play, but I tend to find big pairs easiest to play, and suited connectors the most difficult (because they flop a lot of marginal pairs and weak draw and it's hard to take free cards or see cheap showdowns oop than in position)
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07-22-2012, 02:58 PM
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#4
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old hand
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: 4betting for information
Posts: 1,629
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Re: What are hands which doesn't play well OOP ?
Hands with implied value (as opposed to immediate value) are harder to play OOP. Another thing to consider is the player who's in position as well...I'm more willing to play 76s OOP against a passive player than an aggro player.
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07-22-2012, 03:34 PM
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#5
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Virginia
Posts: 6,288
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Re: What are hands which doesn't play well OOP ?
A7o doesn't play well OOP.
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07-22-2012, 04:41 PM
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#6
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grinder
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: 2&4&5NL Crushed! 10NL loading......
Posts: 642
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Re: What are hands which doesn't play well OOP ?
72o xD
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07-22-2012, 04:54 PM
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#7
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Essex, UK
Posts: 5,388
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Re: What are hands which doesn't play well OOP ?
The only hands that are just as easy to play in or out of position are pairs, with small pairs being even easier than big pairs, provided you stick to a simple strategy at the lowest stakes. i.e. "Hit a set or OESD, check-raise and get it in. Miss a set or OESD, check-fold." Bigger pairs can be harder to fold if you have an overpair and get raised.
Unpaired hands are much harder to play. Pretty hands like 98s are particularly dangerous to play, as they make middle pairs that can be difficult to fold, flop draws that rarely hit, and even when they do, don't often get paid off so well. AK and AQ can also cause lots of players to have problems, though should be very profitable in the long run with careful play.
Overall, A2-A9o are probably the trickiest (and costliest) of the "playable" hands, and I'd advise most beginners to always fold them in the blinds and early positions.
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07-22-2012, 08:18 PM
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#8
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old hand
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Rhode (not an) Island
Posts: 1,652
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Re: What are hands which doesn't play well OOP ?
Then you have the small percentage of times that you flop the absolute nuts with a speculative hand and you're OOP. This example is taken from NLHE: Theory and Practice. You have a suited Ace in the SB. 4 players limp in, you complete, and the BB checks. The flop gives you the nut flush. You've flopped gin, but now what do you do? If you bet out, most of the players will realize there's a reason you're not afraid to bet into 5 opponents on a monotone board. If you check, likely it gets checked through and then you have the same problem on the turn. Of course, someone in position may take a stab at it, but he'll know what's up when you put in the raise. About the only way you're likely to get action here is if someone else flopped a smaller flush (or they have a set and are hoping to boat up).
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07-22-2012, 08:39 PM
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#9
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Mixing it up in Sydney
Posts: 4,320
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Re: What are hands which doesn't play well OOP ?
When deep and against a strong opponent(s) small pairs can be quite tricky to play OOP, most of the time you miss and when you hit and start getting a lot of action you have to be very worried. Heads up post flop I don't mind playing mid suited connectors, they tend to play themselves and can flop well concealed monsters. I find 2 big unsuited cards to be the hardest: they are the most obvious which means you are effectively playing your hand face up OOP. Also don't particularly like weak Axs OOP as hitting top pair and getting called leaves you feeling very uncomfortable - are you getting floated or are you way behind? Multi-way (especially live games with many players to a flop) Axs is quite easy to play OOP as your top pair is almost never good and an easy fold, you are playing exclusively for flush value, preferably flush over flush.
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07-23-2012, 12:50 AM
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#10
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adept
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 919
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Re: What are hands which doesn't play well OOP ?
Hands that are drawing hands (i.e. hands that expect to flop a straight draw or flush draw, such as 9  8  ), play much better in position. Also hands that are made hands such as AA played against drawing hands play better in position.
Hands such as AK or AQ where you flop top pair good kicker are not as important to have position (especially where you'll want some pot control anyway and so can tolerate check/check just fine.)
Hands such as pocket pairs where you hope to flop a set are not as important to be in position either, since you will not be drawing to your hand on the flop.
Almost all hands play better in position than out of position. The only exception would be where you'd want to check/raise a hand, but that has more to do with tactics than your actual cards.
Last edited by the_spike; 07-23-2012 at 12:56 AM.
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07-23-2012, 12:52 AM
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#11
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adept
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 919
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Re: What are hands which doesn't play well OOP ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokes
The only hands that are just as easy to play in or out of position are pairs, with small pairs being even easier than big pairs, provided you stick to a simple strategy at the lowest stakes. i.e. "Hit a set or OESD, check-raise and get it in. Miss a set or OESD, check-fold." Bigger pairs can be harder to fold if you have an overpair and get raised.
Unpaired hands are much harder to play. Pretty hands like 98s are particularly dangerous to play, as they make middle pairs that can be difficult to fold, flop draws that rarely hit, and even when they do, don't often get paid off so well. AK and AQ can also cause lots of players to have problems, though should be very profitable in the long run with careful play.
Overall, A2-A9o are probably the trickiest (and costliest) of the "playable" hands, and I'd advise most beginners to always fold them in the blinds and early positions.
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Very little of this has to do with position.
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07-23-2012, 12:54 AM
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#12
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banned
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,974
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Re: What are hands which doesn't play well OOP ?
All hands play worse OOP. I feel that the worst hands to play OOP are those which require more thought. So as stated above overpairs and set mining are generally pretty easy to play and TPMK, weak draws, weak made hands are tricky.
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07-23-2012, 12:55 AM
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#13
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adept
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 919
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Re: What are hands which doesn't play well OOP ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by denks
Axs is quite easy to play OOP as your top pair is almost never good and an easy fold, you are playing exclusively for flush value, preferably flush over flush.
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Flush draws do not play well OOP. If you're willing to wait until you have flush over flush then fine, but that is very rare.
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07-23-2012, 01:09 AM
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#14
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Mixing it up in Sydney
Posts: 4,320
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Re: What are hands which doesn't play well OOP ?
Way to leave out the important bit: "Multi-way (especially live games with many players to a flop)...". In a live game opponents tend to be passive, draws are quite easy to play OOP if everybody is playing nice and gently and you can see the turn or river for cheap.
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07-23-2012, 01:26 AM
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#15
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adept
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 919
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Re: What are hands which doesn't play well OOP ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by denks
Way to leave out the important bit: "Multi-way (especially live games with many players to a flop)...". In a live game opponents tend to be passive, draws are quite easy to play OOP if everybody is playing nice and gently and you can see the turn or river for cheap.
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That has to do with how the table is playing, not position per se. Obviously anytime someone asks a question like this, the implication is "all else being equal."
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