I am by no means a poker pro, but in my 2+ years of playing live NL, I have come to experience that the so-called "traditional" strong hands don't usually provide the biggest pay days. Yes, I have seen AA or AK win their fair share, but in my experience...it's the hands that sneak up on you...the 8 9 suited connectors....the medium pocket pairs that turn into sets or more....these are the hands that prove to be the most devastating.

My question is this- how do you guys handle the frustration when you sit there for hours on end....get no premium hands like AA, KK, QQ, etc....and then you fold 3 5 and watch the flop come down 5 5 3. It's not smart financial play to see every single hand....so what can you do to ensure you don't miss these stunners? That 3 5 could generate into a huge payout, if played correctly....much moreso than a simple AA, in my opinion...especially if an A pops up on the board. If you bet big before the flop with AA, chances are you're really only gonna have a big payday if someone else also has a strong pocket pair or a potential flush draw, or perhaps they've got AK or AQ.

http://pokerterms.com/results-oriented-thinking.html

Calling preflop with 53o is a losing play in the long run. Making losing plays is why fish are fish. If fish never hit that lucky flop they'd stop playing, and we'd have to make money from players who have a clue, which is harder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poker_p...9;em)#The_flop

if you play online (not because it's any different, but you play more hands and you can track every hand you play) you will realise that you'll almost be certainly be losing with all the trash and even suited connectors, while nearly half your profit will come from AA.

Realise that you never would have called with that 3 5 unsuited hand. If I knew what to play Everytime I'd have a WSOP under my belt already.

I honestly don't have any frustration at all when I fold rags preflop, then see I would have flopped a monster.

AA as the classic example is a hand that unless you can get all or most of the money in preflop, tends to win a lot of small to mid sized pots.

Small pocket pairs, suited connectors and suited aces tend to be the type of hands that win the biggest pots, because when they connect strongly with the board they make big hands and/or huge draws.

Playing live, games are often very deep. If you are 300bb deep then you have a lot more scope for playing connected cards etc.

I don't play live and don't bother looking at the flop unless it's the table that I'm observing at the time. Once you've a 100K flops or so, you should be over the "If only I could see into the future..." modes of thought.

The objectively strongest preflop hands (or "traditional" as you call them), which means hands like AA-QQ, AK, will win more than other hands long-term. Over the long term AA alone will win at least twice or several times more money than any other hand, if you play it correctly.

It is not about big pots or specific hands, it is about how each hand fares long-term. If you consistently play hands like 53 hoping to score a big pot, you will certainly be a big loser over the long term

I don't seem to able to win with AK so I know what you mean. Never hit the flop with it! Or if I do, I win like 10c.
Last night I got 3 hands in a row, same table: QQ, JJ, 99. Won the most with the last one, lol.

this happens to me every single time I play. but if I had played every single hand I'd still come up a loser, cuz of the cost of chasing each of these potential monsters.

don't worry about it, and keep focusing on the bigger cards.

once you get stronger w/the bigger ones, you might add a wider range into your starting card arsenal, if you can see a flop cheaply.

for me, i'm learning to tighten up my starting requirments (online) but have a wider range I can play profitably live.

IE: I might limp 89 suited live and play it fast if I connect. online I'd just dump it. and even live, I'd dump it if raised.

but I'm still learning. i do know I make most of my wins on just a few hands. IE: play 100 hands and make money on only 1 or 2. it's OK to miss a few monsters in there.

Yes, exactly...

Everyone who posted responses is essentially correct. Chasing all kinds of hands with starting garbage is a losing bet in the long run. Nevertheless, it's frustrating when you sit for hours on end and get nothing....then see the rubbish hand you just tossed turn into gold. It's even more frustrating when you see the wild betting that occurs right after that flop, and you realize you could have scored monster profit.

All I know is that I fold the garbage hands and play tight. Then, when I DO hit the AA or KK, the fact that I bet at all alerts the table that I finally have something and I rarely get paid off. The exception was last night, at a live game. I had KK and hit the 3rd K on the flop. Someone went all in with about $150. I was like, hell yes. He had AA. Luckily, my K's stood up....the 3rd A did not come.

So, the only chance I have for getting paid off with AA or KK is if someone else has had a hand they also like (like last night), or they're chasing a flush/straight and go wild.

The biggest pots *tend* to be when two people have premium pairs pre flop AA/KK/QQ or maybe AKs and it all goes in or when someone with AA cant let go of it vs the guy holding 33 on a 379r flop or when someone makes a set over set or fh over fh or flush over flush or.... well, you see my point, there are a ton of reasons why big pots happen. Mostly though, poker is a game of winning the blinds. if you do it more than your opponents do - you win. period. Dont play 35 (suited or not) because the overwhelming majority of the time, you will just lose the price of admission.

One of the +EV plays in Live games is to play a lot more hands when you're in weak games and know you can stack your opponents. 10-8s 8-6s etc become way more playable when you're in pos. I agree that you're going to win bigger pots with more speculative hands, that's why we play them. The key is playing them under optimum conditions.

In my experience of online microstakes, AK is not a hugely profitable hand, and it's one that many players overvalue. It's quite difficult to get 3 streets of value with AK even when you hit the flop.
Pocket pairs are much easier to play, and in most cases they are more profitable. Set-mining is the easiest way to make a profit, as any full ring nit will tell you. With hands like 55 and 77, you're generally calling pre-flop and then either folding on the flop (overcards), or you're hitting your set and trying to get all in.
Hands like AA, KK and QQ, are to a certain extent, trickier to play than smaller pairs. It's hard to fold an overpair to the board, and the biggest pots you lose are to random straights/flushes... or sets.
In the long term, though, your most profitable hands will be AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99 etc.
AK will tend to fit in between jacks and tens, or possibly lower, depending on how you play it. For me playing 2NL, AKo barely breaks even, while AKs wins at about 1b/100 (despite winning about 65% of the pots I enter with it). The big pairs have bb/100 figures in the region of 600. For that reason, I much prefer being dealt any pocket pair over AK. The latter (a bit like aces) wins small pots and loses big ones.

I am finding this is definitely true, at least for me. You really have to learn when not to chase and get out of a hand where you're likely trailing. Get your $ in good when you're the clear favorite or a strong contender.

The key to poker is PATIENCE and unfortunately, I'm not one of the most patient people around...lol. You have to be willing to dump out of hands and take some losses and see profits dwindle down....wait a long time sometimes....and then hit that monster hand, after maybe a couple of hours of waiting, or longer. But it's that monster hand that will probably put you up big and put a big smile on your face.

Then again, sometimes it's just not your day and your monster hand loses. You can't win em all....

pokerstove.com........the nutz are still the nutz, and 34s is what it is.

I have a reputation as being the tightest player at my local charity room. I love it when I get a bad run of cards and I can fold a lot and validate that image.

Two of my sons and I were about to play a tournament together (live MTT) for the first time. One of my sons said that I didn't have a chance against him because he regularly beat his army buddies. The other said that I would be easy to read, because "You only bet when you have something."

My sons and I all started at the same tournament table, and we never played a hand together. I had a horrible run of cards (my best hands were something like A7o, KQo, J9s and 66, all in early position). I folded the entire first hour. Both of my sons were out after the first ten hands.

I made the final table and cashed.

I would raise 66 and KQo in early position.

Yeah, that's defensible and a lot of players would do that. I'm actually thinking about using a little deception to play off my tight image, maybe randomly semibluffing from early position with a hand like 98s. No one at the table would ever put me on that hand, and if I showed it down, that might confuse an opponent who had put me on a range.

Getting back to the main topic of this thread, you should only pray crappy cards (including medium suited connectors UTG) only as part of a strategy. I'm not going to think, "I like suited connectors, so I'll always play them from any position, regardless of the pot odds."

For example, if you're blind blind vs. blind against a timid opponent, bluffing with any two cards might be a profitable play.

For me, what was even more frustrating than that is watching a guy win hand after hand after hand after hand after hand that goes all the way to the river and watching him flip over king-6, ace-5, 10-3, 8-5 etc. for straights, flushes, 3 of a kinds, full houses etc.

It was either Combat Waitress or Cry Me a River who said to me, "If you get dealt 50 unplayable hands in a row, what are you out, 10bb? 15bb?" That helped me get over the results-oriented thinking.

I know what you are saying about them getting to the river with K6o etc type hands. I used to think this tool. In fact, that guy is seeing a ton of flops and only proceeding if he hits.

For beginners, AA/KK/AK often win a lot of small pots, or will lose a few huge pots, because no matter what the action they'll continue to bomb away because 'I haz pocket aces, kerching!', ignoring the obvious flush/straight/sets that are calling 'em all the way down.

Yes it's cliche, but AA is still just one pair. Don't go broke with one pair unless you can get it in on the flop.

It's cliche and bad advice.

Big pocket pairs.. over a good sample size.. will always be your biggest winners. The reason being is that they win those small and medium pots sooooo often, and they will win big pots a fair number of times as well.

If I could tell what was going to hit the board, I would not be using this ability to play poker. I would play roullette. The lottery. Something where I can get paid big!

Play your game and let other's do as they please. If you're playing right the wins will come.