Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Tournament novice playing at the WSOP - advice needed! Tournament novice playing at the WSOP - advice needed!

04-24-2017 , 07:30 PM
I've been lucky enough to win an online promo for a package at this years WSOP - not the main event sadly but I'll be playing the little one for one drop ($1,111 buy-in).

I'm an experienced and moderately competent online 6max cash grinder (about 3 million hands logged in total a healthy winrate over the last 2 million), so I'm certainly no newbie when it comes to poker. However, I could probably count on one hand the number of MTT's I've played.

I'd like to give a decent account of myself at the WSOP so am looking for any pointers to recommended materials for someone dipping their toes into the MTT world for pretty much the first time. I haven't got the first clue when it comes to things like ICM and push/fold ranges, but I do at least have a good work ethic on my side!

Also, any advice specific to live poker would be appreciated too - almost my whole poker 'career' thus far has been spent online.

Thanks in advance for any tips/suggestions.
Tournament novice playing at the WSOP - advice needed! Quote
04-24-2017 , 07:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConwayTwitty
I've been lucky/suggestions.
Good luck bro
Tournament novice playing at the WSOP - advice needed! Quote
04-25-2017 , 04:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConwayTwitty
I've been lucky enough to win an online promo for a package at this years WSOP - not the main event sadly but I'll be playing the little one for one drop ($1,111 buy-in).

I'm an experienced and moderately competent online 6max cash grinder (about 3 million hands logged in total a healthy winrate over the last 2 million), so I'm certainly no newbie when it comes to poker. However, I could probably count on one hand the number of MTT's I've played.

I'd like to give a decent account of myself at the WSOP so am looking for any pointers to recommended materials for someone dipping their toes into the MTT world for pretty much the first time. I haven't got the first clue when it comes to things like ICM and push/fold ranges, but I do at least have a good work ethic on my side!

Also, any advice specific to live poker would be appreciated too - almost my whole poker 'career' thus far has been spent online.

Thanks in advance for any tips/suggestions.
Well, congratulations are in order here!

Now, unfortunately for you, I just can't give you any advice on how to play poker there.

But I could still recommend a few things to consider that you may or may not think about.

Now this is going to be quite an event and quite an experience in itself, so do expect to be overwhelmed by the situation once you get there.
There's no way around it, for most people, it's gonna be a rush of emotions and to be fair, that may not be good for your poker to begin with.

I think if you want to have the best chance to make a great showing, you will have to embrace the experience fully, allow yourself to be overwhelmed by all of it, the players, the venue, everything. Prepare yourself for dealing with it, make up a routine in your head, once you start playing, to phase everything out but your table and your game. The game itself is essentially the same (poker), and you can surely prepare for tournaments (and here is probably a good place to start).

But I think the most important thing here, that will allow you to play your A game, is to be prepared for the experience itself, but not only prepared, but also ready to embrace and appreciate it, regardless of how you may perform.

it's easy to be caught up in the game and miss all the opportunities of amazement around you. But do prepare a routine to get yourself comfortable whenever you start playing.

x good luck and most important: have fun !
Tournament novice playing at the WSOP - advice needed! Quote
04-25-2017 , 08:23 AM
Can you sell the ticket once you are in Vegas and then choose to play in a 6-max event? Probably not, but it's worth crossing off the list.

ICM and push/fold charts really don't come into play until you are short stacked (15-20bb) or there are payout considerations. So although you are correct to 'want' to think about them, you have probably 20-30 hours of poker to play before any of that becomes relevant. So just play poker the way you know how ...

Now the tough part may be adapting to live play. The one big thing you really need to do is slow yourself down so you don't make a mechanical mistake. Break down the process when action is on you and once you make a decision just verbalize it so that anything after than is 'correctable'.

You'd like to think that for 9-handed play you just add 1 player to EP, MP and LP, but I think you'll find a lot of unorthodox play from all positions. Establishing ranges for live players will be a task for you as well.

Lastly ... I don't know the structure, but you should have LOTS of chips and wont necessarily need to be as aggressive with your marginal holdings. It's OK to get to showdown, even with 2-pair in some spots rather than risk the c/r fold. GL
Tournament novice playing at the WSOP - advice needed! Quote
04-25-2017 , 10:41 AM
Good luck and congrats, for starters.

Get to the room early, day in advance, and scope out where the bathrooms are. When you finally go on break, 2 hour blinds, there is a mob rush to get to the closest ones. Find some that are a 3-4 minute walk and they will likely be empty or almost, and you can get in and out quick.

Manage water breaks and stretch your legs during the game. You can go an hour or two being totally card dead and betting ahead that forces you to just muck away. The first day is very long if you make it through it. No prizes for chip leader after level 2, take your time and what for cards. They turn and no need to try to recover wasted chips. Stay away from the coffee and alcohol when you play, one sends you to the bathroom and the other dulls your thinking.

There will be some personalities around you, at your table, and maybe next to you that you will not enjoy. There is always some hygenically challenged people that show up, mouth breathers, etc... Headphones to listen to music, audio book, or podcasts will pass the time spent mucking and ignoring the goofballs. Very experienced live players will try to get you to talk about yourself. There is purpose for that. The odds of a 50 year old accountant being a big risk taker is minimal and that could put your blinds at risk. Stupid things like that offer up a lot of information to the table.

There are always the ovbious tells like, looking down at your chips when cards hit the board, fidgeting, quick movement to fend off the adrenaline rush, etc... It isn't as exciting or colorful as old Norm makes it out to be. Loud, aroma filled, and large time periods of boredom is what it is really like.

Good luck! I've been going to the WSOP for 12 years. Its a lot of fun, but stressful mentally and emotionally. If you go deep, you will understand exactly what I mean.
Tournament novice playing at the WSOP - advice needed! Quote
04-25-2017 , 11:27 AM
Thanks for all the advice so far - really helpful and highly appreciated. Couple of questions to add if anyone can help though.

Firstly, if I'm still alive when it gets to the point where antes are introduced, should I be widening my opening range from all positions (theoretically at least)? It would seem logical we'd need less equity given the added pot odds provided by the antes, or is my logic flawed here?

Secondly, does anybody know if vaping is permitted/accepted in most Vegas poker rooms? I last went to Vegas in 2008 and at that time smoking was fine in the casino but not in the poker rooms. Vaping is a slightly different beast though (I last played live at Aspers in London and they were fine with vaping).

Thanks again
Tournament novice playing at the WSOP - advice needed! Quote
04-25-2017 , 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConwayTwitty
Firstly, if I'm still alive when it gets to the point where antes are introduced, should I be widening my opening range from all positions (theoretically at least)? It would seem logical we'd need less equity given the added pot odds provided by the antes, or is my logic flawed here?
Not so sure you need to widen your EP/MP opening ranges .. but widening your LP/3-bet ranges should warrant some consideration since you will be picking up 'extra' chips when you take it down.

Don't get caught up in the huge opening bets either .. even with the antes in there 2017 poker has you opening for 2.2x or similar with the same results, with less risk, than 3-4x bets.

In the later levels it's not uncommon to bet the Flop 1/4-1/3 pot and still take it down after a 3-bet PF.

In tournaments your stack behind is your bully .. in cash it's the chips you put in the pot that generally do the talking. GL
Tournament novice playing at the WSOP - advice needed! Quote
04-25-2017 , 01:59 PM
Widen your range based on stacks after your play and the probability of their calling or raising. If you are sitting at a table with mostly live players, there isn't going to be a strict MDF adherence like you would with software players. I use the same strategy in tournaments as I do with cash games and that is I play with strength and not into it.

There are many formulations in the GTO aspect of the game that would say that I am wrong in how I play, but I am comfortably in the black the last 17 years of live play, mostly cash tables. All those calculations you are used to playing with a HUD are not at your finger tips and likely to be completely lost on the old timers at the table.

Personally, try to catch as many reads as possible on the other players on the table. Watch how they play hands, actions, and their position when doing it. They tend to be very very habitual in my experience.

No pure math or science on how I play live. I purely adjust to the action and habits of the table.

I would doubt they allow vaping, tobacco smoking is not allowed. They have designated areas for that.

By the way, there is usually a list of 'how-tos' on the WSOP site. If there is something really specific, call the Rio and ask outright. if you plan to sit from hand 1, get there the day or two before and register for the event. The morning of can bring loooongggg lines. You will notice most of the pros and regs show up late, helps avoid some variance and the overexcited newbie that wants to raise or shove preflop against your big pair and donk you out. Value your chips and don't put too much at risk until you know you have it.
Tournament novice playing at the WSOP - advice needed! Quote
04-25-2017 , 02:14 PM
There are a ton of things that differentiate cash from MTT's (especially live MTT's), my main suggestion would be to play somewhat tight in the beginning, don't get involved in marginal spots early on when you don't have to. Play your position especially when 3 betting. You're a cash game player so playing 200 bb's deep shouldn't be all that difficult for you, but I would still remain on the tighter side. As the field thins out, then playing a little more aggressively could be good (depending on your image and the table dynamics). Don't panic when you get below 25 bb's just pick your spots a bit more. I would suggest to get a little familiar playing 20bbs and less. This is where the push/fold charts come in handy. Download a program like ICMizer2 this can really help, although I'm not sure if it's worth it for just this one tournament you're playing.
Tournament novice playing at the WSOP - advice needed! Quote
04-25-2017 , 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by answer20
ICM and push/fold charts really don't come into play until you are short stacked (15-20bb) or there are payout considerations. So although you are correct to 'want' to think about them, you have probably 20-30 hours of poker to play before any of that becomes relevant.
I am pretty sure after the first hour of play you have players at (almost) every table with less than 30BB.

Haven't played in the little one for one drop, but in other WSOP mass events. Nothing super special about it, you can basically plan for it the same way as for going to a conference. Lots of people around, lines at the bathrooms and close food options during breaks. If you want to avoid all of that without walking extra distances, just leave the table one or two hands early. Bringing water and snacks is a plus, if you don't want to wait for drink service.

If you want to get used to tournament poker, play some of the Sunday majors online.
Tournament novice playing at the WSOP - advice needed! Quote
04-28-2017 , 11:40 AM
Thanks for all the feedback guys - really do appreciate it.

Hopefully I'll bump this thread in a few months with a picture of me looking smug holding a bracelet!

Best of luck to you all out there
Tournament novice playing at the WSOP - advice needed! Quote
04-28-2017 , 11:54 AM
Why not sign up to 'Audible' and take a listen to Jonathon Littles, 'Secrets of tournament poker'. I think this would be greatly beneficial if you understand the game, but not so much the nuances of Live MTT's. It has transformed my game a lot.
Tournament novice playing at the WSOP - advice needed! Quote

      
m