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03-24-2017 , 06:10 AM
Would like your thoughts on this please?

NL1€ both players with around 200€ each

UTG with KdKs open with my standard 3xbb raise, folds round to B he calls and blinds fold.

The caller is a reg and calls from position with wide range.

Flop AK7 all clubs, I fire a 50% pot bet, B calls, turn comes 10 spades not a good board for my set we both check, river 3s.

Should I have bet the turn instead of slowing down?
Do I bet the river and fold to a raise?
Maybe better to check call the river here as I know he will bet with anything if I check. I am losing to a lot of hands here any club and QJ (AA is unlikely as would have expected more preflop action)
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03-24-2017 , 08:55 AM
The turn is not a relevant card at all actually because a good reg shouldn't have QJo as a call preflop so he never turns a straight, in fact it might be a good card for you because he can have ATs to make two pair. I assume he doesn't float the flop with too much trash with no equity so checking to catch bluffs doesn't make as much sense. He is likely to have some showdown value with potentially some clubs like AQ or JJ with a club and will check back.

As played on the river he should have very few bluffs unless he wants to turn JJ with a club into a bluff or something like that but to get value from ATs-AJ you need to bet. I don't really get why "he will bet with anything" because it would be a terrible play.
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03-24-2017 , 04:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvis
I don't really get why "he will bet with anything" because it would be a terrible play.
Sorry did not explain to well, I had noted that with this guy any sign of weakness he would bet into you, always bet a checked river, great for trapping but am I the trapper or the prey here?
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03-25-2017 , 06:18 AM
I probably x/c flop but as played would either bet/fold river pretty big or x/c if villain is an habitual bluffer. You're obviously at top of your range for a hand you didn't bomb with. Really the only bad mistake you can make now is x/f to anything smaller than a pot sized bet.
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03-25-2017 , 08:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBeer
I probably x/c flop but as played would either bet/fold river pretty big or x/c if villain is an habitual bluffer. You're obviously at top of your range for a hand you didn't bomb with. Really the only bad mistake you can make now is x/f to anything smaller than a pot sized bet.
I wish we had a 'like' button on this site ... :0

1) Not x/c this Flop too often, but that may be the difference between live and online and/or my player pool. If someone wants to raise me here on the Flop I'm more than ready to tangle with them. The only way that happens is by leading out.

2) I probably bet the Turn (not as often as I bet the Flop) as well for the reasons stated above. There are even more 1-card winners available should a Q or J hit the River. It sucks if they hit the board because you most likely need to x/f to a River bet, but at least you're making them pay. You actually pick up value from hands that may have folded to a blank on the Turn. I'm less likely to expect a call from a worse hand on the River after I 4-barrel so lets get some value on Turn and x/c the River 'safely'.

3) AP ... This is a x/c spot so you can get to showdown, but it's close. It's OK to go for some value here, but you avoid getting raised and offer some bluffs. This comes down to an image thing ... both yours and V's. If you think you can get value 'most' of the time from Ax hands with a small bet, then great. (And you will get Ax to call more Rivers by checking the Turn.) But if you have a tight image then V's calling range is much smaller and you can almost never call a raise.

Nice hand .. These stink but the more you are up against them the more comfortable they become. It's hard to flop a flush. The one thing I consistently see is that Pros don't really worry as much about straights and flushes as 'we' do ... but they also can a be more 'comfortable' about their opponents range too .. IMO. GL
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03-25-2017 , 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anrol57
Sorry did not explain to well, I had noted that with this guy any sign of weakness he would bet into you, always bet a checked river, great for trapping but am I the trapper or the prey here?
Your hand is literally 100% good here on the river. He also shouldn't have many bluffs here you can induce but he does have a ton of 1 pair showdown hands which can check back. Because of that I think betting is far superior. You can think about what you do when he raises but most people raise this river so infrequent with a bluff and they raise so infrequent at all that you can safely bet without being afraid to get exploited.

Or are you saying he is going to bet KQ here just because you checked?
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03-25-2017 , 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvis
are you saying he is going to bet KQ here just because you checked?
I am saying you can class this guy as almost super aggressive he would bet the checked river with 22.

He would normally bet big here in my experience (have come up against this character a few times over the last few years), however this time he fires a value bet of 1/3 of the pot on the river. TBH at this point wished I had bet the turn as no idea where I was with this guy comparing previous hands played. I am thinking nut flush at worse set of As here.

So as said by one response in this thread you should not worry about the flush too much I did make a crying call and the guy had a set of Ts!

So my check on the turn was a mistake as I lost information and value?
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03-25-2017 , 06:48 PM
River is a trivial call, there's nothing to worry about when you get this price and have such a well disguised hand. I'd call with AQo.

I don't really want to be bet 3 streets here without a flush or boating up. So I'm checking a street, I check flop but if not, turn is the time to do it.

Then I x/f river to a 4th club and bet anything else vs. most players. With this guy, you say he will every single hand OTR if checked to, I would x/r the river if I boat up and x/c otherwise.

Another line you could take, is you have the nut bluffcatcher here and if this guy is the type to bet all 3 streets with anything if he senses 'weakness' you could literally x/c the entire hand. But that's very much a read based approach.

Last edited by WereBeer; 03-25-2017 at 06:56 PM.
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