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TIPICAL SPOTS FOR STUDY FIRST TIPICAL SPOTS FOR STUDY FIRST

06-13-2017 , 05:31 AM
Hi 2+2, im noob, and i start study situations with flopzilla.
my question is what recommended spots to study first?
i know the more important spots are the spots in i lost more ev bb, but if i never play, what spots you recommended me for start? or what are the tipical spots to study first with 100bb 6max?
sorry for my poor english, this site are a poker temple for me, but my poor english are a obstacle for understand that, even so with traductor i start post hands soon.
TY
TIPICAL SPOTS FOR STUDY FIRST Quote
06-13-2017 , 05:34 AM
my question is focused to postflop game
TIPICAL SPOTS FOR STUDY FIRST Quote
06-13-2017 , 12:31 PM
Build some strategies for playing the flop in the most common situations, such as when you open on the BTN and get called by the BB.
Consider a flop like AT3r (rainbow, no flush draw) and work out which hands in your range have the most equity vs villain's continuance range. Build a flop strategy based on that (betting your value hands and semi-bluffs, checking your SDV and air). If you want to get really detailed, you can list out your entire range in order of strength (with two columns, one for made hands and one for draws, so you'd have AA, TT, 33, AT, A3, AK at the top of the made hands list, and KQ, KJ, QJ at the top of the list of draws).
Then do the same on other flops, like K94tt (two-tone, with a flush draw), QQ5 (paired high card and a low card), J22 (a high card and a paired low card), T97tt (a very co-ordinated board where a flopped straight is possible). Get an idea of what your range looks like on everything from an ace-high flop to a 5-high flop. (Study the flops with a high card first, as these are more common. It's pretty hard to have a flop where a 4 or 5 is the highest card).

I don't use Flopzilla, but I think it can tell you how often your range will connect with each flop (how many top pairs you hit, for example), and from that you can start deducing which boards are the ones where you can/should bet at a high frequency, and which are better for your opponent, so you do more checking.

Last edited by ArtyMcFly; 06-13-2017 at 12:38 PM.
TIPICAL SPOTS FOR STUDY FIRST Quote
06-13-2017 , 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly
Build some strategies for playing the flop in the most common situations, such as when you open on the BTN and get called by the BB.
Consider a flop like AT3r (rainbow, no flush draw) and work out which hands in your range have the most equity vs villain's continuance range. Build a flop strategy based on that (betting your value hands and semi-bluffs, checking your SDV and air). If you want to get really detailed, you can list out your entire range in order of strength (with two columns, one for made hands and one for draws, so you'd have AA, TT, 33, AT, A3, AK at the top of the made hands list, and KQ, KJ, QJ at the top of the list of draws).
Then do the same on other flops, like K94tt (two-tone, with a flush draw), QQ5 (paired high card and a low card), J22 (a high card and a paired low card), T97tt (a very co-ordinated board where a flopped straight is possible). Get an idea of what your range looks like on everything from an ace-high flop to a 5-high flop. (Study the flops with a high card first, as these are more common. It's pretty hard to have a flop where a 4 or 5 is the highest card).

I don't use Flopzilla, but I think it can tell you how often your range will connect with each flop (how many top pairs you hit, for example), and from that you can start deducing which boards are the ones where you can/should bet at a high frequency, and which are better for your opponent, so you do more checking.
TY so much for that, your answer are light in my darkness (i dont know this well said), but no only this answer, i look your answers in a lot of post questions, and are really light for me. i look your blog and I was surprised when I saw that you did not play.
really very ty man.
TIPICAL SPOTS FOR STUDY FIRST Quote
06-15-2017 , 06:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly
Build some strategies for playing the flop in the most common situations, such as when you open on the BTN and get called by the BB.
Consider a flop like AT3r (rainbow, no flush draw) and work out which hands in your range have the most equity vs villain's continuance range. Build a flop strategy based on that (betting your value hands and semi-bluffs, checking your SDV and air). If you want to get really detailed, you can list out your entire range in order of strength (with two columns, one for made hands and one for draws, so you'd have AA, TT, 33, AT, A3, AK at the top of the made hands list, and KQ, KJ, QJ at the top of the list of draws).
Then do the same on other flops, like K94tt (two-tone, with a flush draw), QQ5 (paired high card and a low card), J22 (a high card and a paired low card), T97tt (a very co-ordinated board where a flopped straight is possible). Get an idea of what your range looks like on everything from an ace-high flop to a 5-high flop. (Study the flops with a high card first, as these are more common. It's pretty hard to have a flop where a 4 or 5 is the highest card).

I don't use Flopzilla, but I think it can tell you how often your range will connect with each flop (how many top pairs you hit, for example), and from that you can start deducing which boards are the ones where you can/should bet at a high frequency, and which are better for your opponent, so you do more checking.
Arty i did the exercise with first flop. AT3r
with a 49% OR (this is my maximun or%, for very fold or low 3b villains) you look fine this?



My doubts are, allways gutshot cbet? allways 2card backdor flush drow cbet?and maybe included no made hand in we cbet range? with my or range, if we check A8s and check all no made hands, wer cbet does not reach to 50%
Other doubt are how much equity need a top pair for be cbetting?
Sorry but i dont understand this questions
TIPICAL SPOTS FOR STUDY FIRST Quote
06-15-2017 , 06:23 PM
http://imgur.com/MNpQi2p
bah i dont know up photos XD

Last edited by SlavaGZ; 06-15-2017 at 06:24 PM. Reason: yes
TIPICAL SPOTS FOR STUDY FIRST Quote
06-16-2017 , 12:46 PM
To include the image in the post, you need to grab the direct link that ends in .png.

Here it is:


I don't open as wide as 49%, but that's a fine/good frequency for micros. On this kind of board where you have so many top pairs, you can/should bet at a high frequency, as you have a range advantage, and villain only has 3 combos of sets (he 3-bets AA and TT pre). I would bet A9+ or better for value/protection, literally every gutshot, most pairs below middle pair and just about anything with backdoors.

With my 38% opening range [22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q6s+, J7s+, T7s+, 96s+, 86s+, 75s+, 64s+, 54s, A4o+, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o] and some quick clicking in Equilab, I get something like this:


On the matrix on the left, red combos are bets (somewhat polarized, with A9+ for value, worst underpairs and bottom pairs for protection, gutshots and BDFDs as bluffs), yellow are checks (mostly weak Ax, KK/QQ/JJ/Tx/99 and complete air) and that leads to a c-bet frequency of 57%. You can probably get away with betting more often than that exploitatively (i.e. have some total airballs but also more Ax) if you use a smaller size, but I generally only want to bet with something that can turn some equity. You could expand your value range to include more of the Ax if you want to include more air in your range, but this risks making your check-back range a bit too capped.

P.S. I see from your image that you (like a lot of people) have a lot of offsuit hands in your range that flop really badly. I can't emphasise enough how valuable suitedness is. I don't open A3o or 65o on the button, because they are just terrible hands post-flop. If your steal doesn't get through, you should often just give up with the total junk.

Last edited by ArtyMcFly; 06-16-2017 at 12:57 PM.
TIPICAL SPOTS FOR STUDY FIRST Quote
06-21-2017 , 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly
To include the image in the post, you need to grab the direct link that ends in .png.

Here it is:


I don't open as wide as 49%, but that's a fine/good frequency for micros. On this kind of board where you have so many top pairs, you can/should bet at a high frequency, as you have a range advantage, and villain only has 3 combos of sets (he 3-bets AA and TT pre). I would bet A9+ or better for value/protection, literally every gutshot, most pairs below middle pair and just about anything with backdoors.

With my 38% opening range [22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q6s+, J7s+, T7s+, 96s+, 86s+, 75s+, 64s+, 54s, A4o+, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o] and some quick clicking in Equilab, I get something like this:


On the matrix on the left, red combos are bets (somewhat polarized, with A9+ for value, worst underpairs and bottom pairs for protection, gutshots and BDFDs as bluffs), yellow are checks (mostly weak Ax, KK/QQ/JJ/Tx/99 and complete air) and that leads to a c-bet frequency of 57%. You can probably get away with betting more often than that exploitatively (i.e. have some total airballs but also more Ax) if you use a smaller size, but I generally only want to bet with something that can turn some equity. You could expand your value range to include more of the Ax if you want to include more air in your range, but this risks making your check-back range a bit too capped.

P.S. I see from your image that you (like a lot of people) have a lot of offsuit hands in your range that flop really badly. I can't emphasise enough how valuable suitedness is. I don't open A3o or 65o on the button, because they are just terrible hands post-flop. If your steal doesn't get through, you should often just give up with the total junk.
Thank you, really you open my eyes for focus my postflop study.
Only two more questions.
In 3bet pots wee need more air in cbet?
And what changes recomended me for build my cbet in oop situations?
TIPICAL SPOTS FOR STUDY FIRST Quote
06-21-2017 , 01:13 PM
I wouldn't say you "need more air", but when the SPR is lower, denying free equity becomes more important, and you often have a clear range advantage (villain almost never has KK+ or AK) so you should usually have a higher c-bet frequency in 3-bet pots, albeit with a smaller size in relation to the size of the pot. You've still got to consider which hands in your range are the best bets for value, protection or as bluffs, however.

For OOP in single-raised pots, you should be checking a lot more often than you probably are. Hands like TPGK that are standard c-bets in position usually become x-calls OOP, and the absolute top of your range is often check-raised or check-called, balanced by some good draws. i.e. if you're check-raising the nuts, then obviously your c-bet frequency is going to be lower than it would be IP, because you always bet the nuts IP.

e.g. If you have QJ on the button vs BB, you'd pretty much always c-bet on Q95tt, since that's the only way to get money in the pot and get some value/protection. You'd also bet QQ and 99 for pure value and you'd bet nearly all of your flush draws as a semi-bluff. When you're OOP in MP v CO on the same Q95tt, you should be more inclined to check-call with QJ (using it as a bluff-catcher), and you protect your bluffcatchers by also checking QQ (mostly check-call, because it's hard for villain to have much when you flop top set) and 99 (usually check-raise, to win the max when villain has Qx). You could/should also check-call and check-raise some flush draws, so that you can rep the nuts on all board runouts or facing any action sequence.
The basic idea for playing OOP as the PFR is that to keep villain's range widest and weakest, you need to check to him more often, because when you c-bet OOP, villain folds all his air and only continues with hands that have good equity. You don't want him to have a range advantage (as well as the positional advantage) on the turn, so you shouldn't c-bet very often to begin with.

P.S. To understand that ATx board more deeply, read this article: https://www.upswingpoker.com/analyze...nd-techniques/
TIPICAL SPOTS FOR STUDY FIRST Quote
06-21-2017 , 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly
I wouldn't say you "need more air", but when the SPR is lower, denying free equity becomes more important, and you often have a clear range advantage (villain almost never has KK+ or AK) so you should usually have a higher c-bet frequency in 3-bet pots, albeit with a smaller size in relation to the size of the pot. You've still got to consider which hands in your range are the best bets for value, protection or as bluffs, however.

For OOP in single-raised pots, you should be checking a lot more often than you probably are. Hands like TPGK that are standard c-bets in position usually become x-calls OOP, and the absolute top of your range is often check-raised or check-called, balanced by some good draws. i.e. if you're check-raising the nuts, then obviously your c-bet frequency is going to be lower than it would be IP, because you always bet the nuts IP.

e.g. If you have QJ on the button vs BB, you'd pretty much always c-bet on Q95tt, since that's the only way to get money in the pot and get some value/protection. You'd also bet QQ and 99 for pure value and you'd bet nearly all of your flush draws as a semi-bluff. When you're OOP in MP v CO on the same Q95tt, you should be more inclined to check-call with QJ (using it as a bluff-catcher), and you protect your bluffcatchers by also checking QQ (mostly check-call, because it's hard for villain to have much when you flop top set) and 99 (usually check-raise, to win the max when villain has Qx). You could/should also check-call and check-raise some flush draws, so that you can rep the nuts on all board runouts or facing any action sequence.
The basic idea for playing OOP as the PFR is that to keep villain's range widest and weakest, you need to check to him more often, because when you c-bet OOP, villain folds all his air and only continues with hands that have good equity. You don't want him to have a range advantage (as well as the positional advantage) on the turn, so you shouldn't c-bet very often to begin with.

P.S. To understand that ATx board more deeply, read this article: https://www.upswingpoker.com/analyze...nd-techniques/

Love your mindset on these things.

Do you offer coaching?
TIPICAL SPOTS FOR STUDY FIRST Quote
06-21-2017 , 08:07 PM
Thanks, but no, I don't coach. That would be too much like real work!
TIPICAL SPOTS FOR STUDY FIRST Quote
06-29-2017 , 10:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly
I wouldn't say you "need more air", but when the SPR is lower, denying free equity becomes more important, and you often have a clear range advantage (villain almost never has KK+ or AK) so you should usually have a higher c-bet frequency in 3-bet pots, albeit with a smaller size in relation to the size of the pot. You've still got to consider which hands in your range are the best bets for value, protection or as bluffs, however.

For OOP in single-raised pots, you should be checking a lot more often than you probably are. Hands like TPGK that are standard c-bets in position usually become x-calls OOP, and the absolute top of your range is often check-raised or check-called, balanced by some good draws. i.e. if you're check-raising the nuts, then obviously your c-bet frequency is going to be lower than it would be IP, because you always bet the nuts IP.

e.g. If you have QJ on the button vs BB, you'd pretty much always c-bet on Q95tt, since that's the only way to get money in the pot and get some value/protection. You'd also bet QQ and 99 for pure value and you'd bet nearly all of your flush draws as a semi-bluff. When you're OOP in MP v CO on the same Q95tt, you should be more inclined to check-call with QJ (using it as a bluff-catcher), and you protect your bluffcatchers by also checking QQ (mostly check-call, because it's hard for villain to have much when you flop top set) and 99 (usually check-raise, to win the max when villain has Qx). You could/should also check-call and check-raise some flush draws, so that you can rep the nuts on all board runouts or facing any action sequence.
The basic idea for playing OOP as the PFR is that to keep villain's range widest and weakest, you need to check to him more often, because when you c-bet OOP, villain folds all his air and only continues with hands that have good equity. You don't want him to have a range advantage (as well as the positional advantage) on the turn, so you shouldn't c-bet very often to begin with.

P.S. To understand that ATx board more deeply, read this article: https://www.upswingpoker.com/analyze...nd-techniques/
ty man tytyty, I'll try to build my postflop game thanks to you and this article.
im not sure i understand the maths of article, this account its true?

- BET 50% RIVER, 75% TURN, 50% FLOP

ODDS VILLAIN 25% RIVER, 30% TURN, 25% FLOP
VALUE 75% RIVER – 25% BLUFF
75% VALUE RIVER x 70% BET TURN = 52.5% VALUE TURN – 48 % BLUFF
52,5% VALUE TURN x 75% BET FLOP = 39.4% VALUE FLOP – 61% BLUFF

I know I do not need to know much about math to get out of micros (i play 10zoom), but my postflop game is null, and when i play i am insecure.
know too i only need exploit villains, and no need play perfect, but think i need have this idea of inexploitive game for start understand the postflop game. and start know how exploit villains.

only 1 more question, and sorry for this a lot of questions.
when yoy say low cbet in OOP, and if we no cbet a TP, we only have a bluff-semi bluff cbet OOP? its easy exploit if villain reraise a lot IP vs wer cbet OOP?
ty man for your time and for your complete answers
TIPICAL SPOTS FOR STUDY FIRST Quote
06-29-2017 , 02:53 PM
I wouldn't bother getting heavily into the math of that Upswing article, especially as the "minimum defence frequency" concept isn't very useful on the early streets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlavaGZ
only 1 more question, and sorry for this a lot of questions.
when yoy say low cbet in OOP, and if we no cbet a TP, we only have a bluff-semi bluff cbet OOP? its easy exploit if villain reraise a lot IP vs wer cbet OOP?
ty man for your time and for your complete answers
You should generally c-bet at a low frequency when OOP, and your range would be made of hands like mid/bot set, 2prs, TPTK, some strong draws (e.g. gutter+2 overs+BDFD), and some weak draws (gutters without overcards, low Axs with backdoors). If villain raises, you continue with the TPTK/sets/2pr and strong draws, and fold the worst draws. Villain can't exploit you if your continuance range has equity (or blockers) even against his sets.
It's hands like top pair average kicker that do badly OOP when they get raised, so you should just check-call with those.
e.g. If you're in MP vs BTN on Kh 9c 3h, you could bet-call with 99, K9s, AK, QJhh/QThh/JThh (gutter + FD, and maybe in clubs too for the BDFD), but you could bet-fold the QJs/QTs/JTs that have no flush draw or BDFD, along with some other random hands like A4cc (backdoor FD+BDSD+overcard). As long as you have some strong hands that can withstand a raise, villain can't just raise and print money. On those boards where you don't have many monster hands or draws though, your betting frequency should be fairly low to begin with though, as you'll have lots of one pair hands (e.g. AA/KQ/KJ/KTs/QQ/JJ/TT/A9s/J9s/98s/88/77 on K93) that really want to pot-control/bluffcatch. When you want to check a lot of marginal made hands, you also need to check some monsters (e.g. top set), some nut draws (AQhh has NFD+BDSD+overcard) and some air. By checking a lot, you prevent villain from floating and giving you hell on the turn and river. And when you have complete air (like A7s in the wrong suit), check-folding loses the absolute minimum.

Last edited by ArtyMcFly; 06-29-2017 at 02:59 PM.
TIPICAL SPOTS FOR STUDY FIRST Quote
06-29-2017 , 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly
I wouldn't bother getting heavily into the math of that Upswing article, especially as the "minimum defence frequency" concept isn't very useful on the early streets.

You should generally c-bet at a low frequency when OOP, and your range would be made of hands like mid/bot set, 2prs, TPTK, some strong draws (e.g. gutter+2 overs+BDFD), and some weak draws (gutters without overcards, low Axs with backdoors). If villain raises, you continue with the TPTK/sets/2pr and strong draws, and fold the worst draws. Villain can't exploit you if your continuance range has equity (or blockers) even against his sets.
It's hands like top pair average kicker that do badly OOP when they get raised, so you should just check-call with those.
e.g. If you're in MP vs BTN on Kh 9c 3h, you could bet-call with 99, K9s, AK, QJhh/QThh/JThh (gutter + FD, and maybe in clubs too for the BDFD), but you could bet-fold the QJs/QTs/JTs that have no flush draw or BDFD, along with some other random hands like A4cc (backdoor FD+BDSD+overcard). As long as you have some strong hands that can withstand a raise, villain can't just raise and print money. On those boards where you don't have many monster hands or draws though, your betting frequency should be fairly low to begin with though, as you'll have lots of one pair hands (e.g. AA/KQ/KJ/KTs/QQ/JJ/TT/A9s/J9s/98s/88/77 on K93) that really want to pot-control/bluffcatch. When you want to check a lot of marginal made hands, you also need to check some monsters (e.g. top set), some nut draws (AQhh has NFD+BDSD+overcard) and some air. By checking a lot, you prevent villain from floating and giving you hell on the turn and river. And when you have complete air (like A7s in the wrong suit), check-folding loses the absolute minimum.
for maths i focused to % value/bluff we need bet in 3 streets for in river no have a mistake. i dont sure if i understan this, but i think yes.
ty for all your answers, i think i understand cbet morphology now
ty man you are very good explaining
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