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Straddling Straddling

04-27-2017 , 01:40 AM
Sorry for all the questions. I have seen on here on videos the mention of straddles. Are there required at the table? If not, is it awkward if I choose not participate?
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04-27-2017 , 02:38 AM
No, and only if you want it to be
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04-27-2017 , 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by sixfour
No, and only if you want it to be
Thx! I appreciate the advice. Do most participate?
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04-27-2017 , 03:07 AM
It's obviously going to vary from table to table
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04-27-2017 , 04:10 AM
It gets more money in the pot and halves your stack to pot ratio.

It increases your variance.

Avoid.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
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04-27-2017 , 11:57 AM
Thanks everyone!
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04-27-2017 , 12:21 PM
This is pretty game-specific. Most of the time there's absolutely no obligation to straddle. However, there are some games that play either with a mandatory straddle or a straddle that while not technically mandatory, everybody always does. In the former you obviously must straddle, and in the latter you should straddle even if not absolutely forced to.

Also common to sometimes see people suggest a round of straddles. If everyone else is doing it for a round, while it's not a necessity you should too. It's bad for your game and the image to skip your straddle when everyone else does it.
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04-27-2017 , 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by MIB211
Also common to sometimes see people suggest a round of straddles. If everyone else is doing it for a round, while it's not a necessity you should too. It's bad for your game and the image to skip your straddle when everyone else does it.
That's an important point. If everybody does it, you shouldn't be "that guy" even if the straddle is not mandatory.

Besides that, there are different kinds of straddles. UTG straddles are almost always -EV and there's no real reason to do them other than to loosen up the game. Mississippi straddles on the button can be highly +EV, depending on your skill.

Mississippi from other positions are somewhere in the middle EV-wise and also dependant on other players being allowed to re-straddle. The CO straddling and the button re-straddling might create a pretty crazy scenario, especially if stacks are deep.
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04-27-2017 , 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by madlex
That's an important point. If everybody does it, you shouldn't be "that guy" even if the straddle is not mandatory.

Besides that, there are different kinds of straddles. UTG straddles are almost always -EV and there's no real reason to do them other than to loosen up the game. Mississippi straddles on the button can be highly +EV, depending on your skill.

Mississippi from other positions are somewhere in the middle EV-wise and also dependant on other players being allowed to re-straddle. The CO straddling and the button re-straddling might create a pretty crazy scenario, especially if stacks are deep.
Yes, I'll often MS straddle from the button. I usually do it when playing deepstack and the SB and BB are good players who are also deep. I like to (I) annoy the good players by straddling their blinds and (ii) see what they do pre flop before I have to act. I also love seeing super multiway limped pots with deep stacks on the button, and when you do have a premium everyone already expects you to raise your straddle so you can get value. The key is that you're giving up a bit of pre-flop EV (making a small blind bet) because you think it puts you in good situations later (super multi way pot in position or ability to raise and get actions on your premiums). Need to be confident in your post-flop play though, because the weird thing about straddles and especially button straddles is that while they generate action, that action is often calling rather than raising. It's fairly rare for me to see limped pots in unstraddled pots, but it's pretty common in straddle pots.
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04-27-2017 , 04:36 PM
I really appreciate all the responses. Definitely don't want to be "that guy". Been playing some tournaments just now getting into cash games.
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04-28-2017 , 11:47 PM
if allowed to straddle on the button move seats if you are in the blinds of those that do straddle from behind you as you can almost certainly not win in that game.
an those that straddle right ahead of your blind as well.

unless all are doing it. then it works for you if you play well enough. if not you get broke quickly.
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04-29-2017 , 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Ray Zee
if allowed to straddle on the button move seats if you are in the blinds of those that do straddle from behind you as you can almost certainly not win in that game.
an those that straddle right ahead of your blind as well.

unless all are doing it. then it works for you if you play well enough. if not you get broke quickly.
Thanks! That is what I figured.
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04-29-2017 , 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Ray Zee
if allowed to straddle on the button move seats if you are in the blinds of those that do straddle from behind you as you can almost certainly not win in that game.
Would you move away from having position on the two worst players on the table to avoid them being able to straddle their BU while you are in the blinds?
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04-29-2017 , 10:53 AM
yes as you basically are losing your blinds to the straddles. you no longer ever get in cheap with your blinds and will be oop to the table all the time.
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04-29-2017 , 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Ray Zee
yes as you basically are losing your blinds to the straddles. you no longer ever get in cheap with your blinds and will be oop to the table all the time.
And that matters more than having position during all non-blind hands on the two guys who play 90% of their hands anyway with one of them having a PFR of 50%?
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04-29-2017 , 11:18 AM
maybe not then. but still a lousy spot to be in. i would much rather be across the table from them and not fighting from oop with them in the blinds. and having others in and being caught in the middle with their betting into me.
if you like it there so be it. me, i dont at all.
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04-30-2017 , 12:18 PM
UTG straddles are fairly common. I encourage everyone who likes that move to do that at my table. I never do it myself , however, because I can't see any good reason to raise the stakes blind and then have to play out of very weak position. Now the other types of Straddles actually have some value and that is a very different kettle of fish.
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04-30-2017 , 01:00 PM
if they are under the gun straddling on your bb then it is a terrible thing for you and you should move or try to stop it. doesnt matter how bad they play.
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04-30-2017 , 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Ray Zee
if they are under the gun straddling on your bb then it is a terrible thing for you and you should move or try to stop it. doesnt matter how bad they play.
Not terrible to me actually. I seldom play the BB personally against a raise or straddle without having a strong hand anyway, so I just fold most hands regardless. If I wake up with a good hand in the BB once in a while I am not upset at all to play against some guy who has raised the stakes blind. Just one opinion. UTG straddles don't bother me because most of the time they accomplish very little positive for the straddler except to make his losses somewhat larger, again just my opinion on UTG straddles.
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04-30-2017 , 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Ray Zee
doesnt matter how bad they play.
I disagree with that. As long as players are bad enough to only care about the absolut size of a bet and not about the size relative to the pot, straddled pots are a pretty good thing for you if you have a lot of players acting between the straddler and you.

Example: 1/3 game, UTG straddles $6, you are in the BB. 4 players call the straddle, same way they would limp into an unopened pot. Action is on you with $34 in the pot and you make it $30, risking $27. That raise is less than pot and still people don't think "hey, I'm getting better than 2.5:1 on a call and have position on that guy" but instead say "wow, 30 bucks that's way too much!" and just fold.
That exact thing has happened countless times to me in passive 1/3 games with bad, money-scared players.
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04-30-2017 , 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Ray Zee
if they are under the gun straddling on your bb then it is a terrible thing for you and you should move or try to stop it. doesnt matter how bad they play.
I disagree. Your BB just becomes the SB, basically, but you retain position on one player. I would be totally fine with UTG straddling my blinds. I may even encourage it.

I am looking for online win-rates by position for the blinds. Basically if the win-rate for BB is less than double that of the SB, I would think having an UTG straddle would be +EV for you. One source said -40BB/100 for BB and -20BB/100 for SB are pretty standard, so an UTG straddle would be roughly neutral. I'd also argue that shortening effective stacks and retaining position on the SB are a net positive for the BB player compared to being the SB in an unstraddled pot.

Of course, the further IP the straddler, the worse it is for the blinds, as they lose their only advantage of pre-flop position, but I very highly doubt that BU straddles on your blinds makes the game unbeatable, even if those are the only times the game has a straddle. In live games I believe you are making more than enough from other positions to win even if you have to fold your blinds 100% of the time, which is not the case. Still, it would likely be highly beneficial to move to the straddler's direct right, ignoring other factors in play.

I am also highly skeptical that BU straddling is good to do, unless perhaps if you have an enormous skill edge on the table and/or stacks are deep enough that you need to double the stakes to bring them into play.
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04-30-2017 , 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MIB211
Also common to sometimes see people suggest a round of straddles. If everyone else is doing it for a round, while it's not a necessity you should too. It's bad for your game and the image to skip your straddle when everyone else does it.
Have you ever seen LAGs try too hard to bust the one guy who won't straddle?
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