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Which range will be better off seeing a free card? Which range will be better off seeing a free card?

11-28-2016 , 05:47 PM
Is there a rule of thumb for figuring out which one of two ranges will benefit from seeing cards?

e.g. if player a raises preflop, player b calls. both players agree to check their whole range on the flop and see a turn for free. Which range will benefit more?

Is there an easy way of finding this out? I know Equilab has a "scenario analyser" for turn and river cards, but that only calculates hand vs range, and not range vs range.
Which range will be better off seeing a free card? Quote
11-28-2016 , 06:57 PM
What position was the better in? What position is the caller in? How much did he bet? What came on the flop? How tight/loose are these players?

In poker every hand is unique.
Which range will be better off seeing a free card? Quote
11-28-2016 , 07:39 PM
welcome to the forum mevve!
I agree every hand is unique however understanding the generalities will help develop the best strategy for a given unique hand.

Free cards benefit the range that is behind (based on the current equity at that point in time, also accounting for bluff equity), unless some other factor outweighs this, such as creating enough deception that it causes more money to enter the pot in favor of the range that is ahead later in the hand.

Example hands:
player checks his flush draw behind on the turn. this is an example of a hand that is behind that gains from taking the free card if bluffing would not have been worthwhile.

Example hand:
player flops four aces heads up on an AA6 board. this player checks behind in hope of making more EV later.
Which range will be better off seeing a free card? Quote
11-28-2016 , 08:41 PM
Thank you brick.

I usually opt to play strong draws aggressive if my opponent have a decent stack, especially when I have position on him.

For example, we have a flush draw with one or two overs to the board. We are probably behind, our opponent might not have a pair but we are also behind most high cards. By betting here we fold out all hands that we rarely get any value from if we make our hand. And we start building a bigger pot for the times we end up making our hand. We will also be able to see most rivers free if we donīt make our hand on the turn. In most cases when someone check-calls then turn a pair he usually checks again.

Do you think this is a winning play? I usually bet around 3/4 of the pot on the flop so I need to either find a fold or make my hand 3/4th of the time which I probably donīt do mathematically but the lost EV here should be compensated by the larger pot I win when I end up making my hand.

For your second example I completely agree.

Sorry for taking over your thread ToiletBowler.
Which range will be better off seeing a free card? Quote
11-28-2016 , 09:57 PM
depends on the unique situation, but poker is so interesting because of the complexities.
Notice I said,
Quote:
if bluffing would not have been worthwhile.
This situation that you have described is even more complex because some % of the time you are ahead and some percentage of the time you are behind but have a lot of outs. (Semi-bluffing)

You'd have to make some kind of tree to analyze the possibilities and calculate the average EV of all the trees for both possible lines:
(1) semi-bluffing the turn and playing the hand from there
(2) then compare that to checking behind on the turn and playing the hand from there

It might be worth creating an Excel spreadsheet!

Currently Ahead
- both miss river (What % will this happen and How much will you make on average?)
- you hit river (What % will this happen and How much will you make on average?)
- he hits river (What % will this happen and How much will you lose on average?)

Currently Behind
- you hit river (What % will this happen and How much will you make on average?)
- you miss river (What % will this happen and How much will you lose on average?)

I suspect you will be right that betting will be most profitable but would love to know what you come up with.
Which range will be better off seeing a free card? Quote
11-28-2016 , 11:16 PM
Sounds like good homework. It is late here in Sweden, I'll try to get it done tomorrow or the day after and publish my results in a new thread.
Which range will be better off seeing a free card? Quote
11-29-2016 , 02:22 PM
just found this tool which might help with your analysis:

http://redchippoker.com/fold-equity-calculator/
Which range will be better off seeing a free card? Quote

      
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