|
|
| Beginners Questions Poker beginner ?
Ask your (possibly) naive question here and our community will attempt to help you. |
02-07-2012, 10:16 AM
|
#1
|
|
grinder
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 467
|
Perception vs. Reality - having the nuts
Anyone ever feel like whenever they have the nuts, everybody else folds no matter how little you bet, but whenver you shove or otherwise bet big with a strong hand that isn't the nuts (non-nut flush, middle set, two pair etc.) someone shoves over the top of you with a better hand and you get fleeced.
I'm sure that's just poker like everything else, I'm just venting.
|
|
|
02-07-2012, 10:26 AM
|
#2
|
|
grinder
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 484
|
Re: Perception vs. Reality - having the nuts
Variance, selective memory or tight ranges that your opponents have picked up on so they don't give you action. Maybe a little of all three.
Hard to say which it is since you haven't given information on your play style, hand examples, or the caliber of the opponents your facing.
Quote:
|
, everybody else folds no matter how little you bet, but whenver you shove or otherwise bet big with a strong hand that isn't the nuts (non-nut flush, middle set, two pair etc.) someone shoves over the top of you with a better hand and you get fleeced.
|
However this sounds grossly unbalanced to me. If you always bet small with the nuts and bet big with medium strength hands and your opponents know this... well it won't be hard to figure out what to do with top-pair will it?
|
|
|
02-07-2012, 10:28 AM
|
#3
|
|
journeyman
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 359
|
Re: Perception vs. Reality - having the nuts
well when you have the nuts its unlikely someone else also does and wants to get all their $ in. When you have a pretty strong hand and some1 else has the nuts they'll be happy to put their stack in against you.
|
|
|
02-07-2012, 11:13 AM
|
#4
|
|
Notorious
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 18,346
|
Re: Perception vs. Reality - having the nuts
|
|
|
02-07-2012, 11:16 AM
|
#5
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 4,158
|
Re: Perception vs. Reality - having the nuts
if you get all in on the flop with a set often enough, you will find that plenty of people are more than happy to pay you off with worse hands.
|
|
|
02-07-2012, 01:59 PM
|
#6
|
|
adept
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 1,028
|
Re: Perception vs. Reality - having the nuts
There are always sessions like this, or where ur AK just never hits, or ur PP never hits a set, but there are days when it all goes right too. Its all about losing least when we're behind and making most when we aren't. How u do that is listed in all the other threads on 2+2 (kinda)!
|
|
|
02-08-2012, 10:58 AM
|
#7
|
|
stranger
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 10
|
Re: Perception vs. Reality - having the nuts
I also have the opposite happen, where I run a straight or a flush into a full house. I feel like I lose the most money with the 2nd best hand.
Now every time I take down a small pot with the nuts I think about how I really need my opponent to make 2nd best hand for a huge payday and I worry less about not getting paid off.
|
|
|
02-08-2012, 12:14 PM
|
#8
|
|
journeyman
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 340
|
Re: Perception vs. Reality - having the nuts
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidZuidema
I also have the opposite happen, where I run a straight or a flush into a full house. I feel like I lose the most money with the 2nd best hand.
Now every time I take down a small pot with the nuts I think about how I really need my opponent to make 2nd best hand for a huge payday and I worry less about not getting paid off.
|
If you find that your straights and flushes bump into FHs a lot more often than the other way around over a large sample, then it is probably because you don't know how to lay down your hand when you really should, while your opponents do know how to use the fold button.
|
|
|
02-08-2012, 06:35 PM
|
#9
|
|
adept
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: learn to play
Posts: 703
|
Re: Perception vs. Reality - having the nuts
Quote:
Originally Posted by DalTXColtsFan
Anyone ever feel like whenever they have the nuts, everybody else folds no matter how little you bet,
|
it depends on how well concealed your nuts is, and if villains hit anything of the board.
oh yeah, and if you think that's always the case, you need to play moar hands.
|
|
|
02-08-2012, 06:46 PM
|
#10
|
|
veteran
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Mixing it up in Sydney
Posts: 2,948
|
Re: Perception vs. Reality - having the nuts
If you always bet tiny when you have the nuts but bet big when you have a weaker hand or bluff then you have 2 big problems:
1) you are telegraphing to your opponent what hand you have
2) you are on a fast path to bustoville. NLTAP addresses this point very well, you will consistently make the least when you are ahead and lose the most when behind. Also in EV terms just because you get called more often does not mean you are making the most. If you have a 0.5 chance of getting called when betting 1/4 pot with the nuts or a 0.1 chance of getting called when betting 2x pot with the nuts you will make significantly more over the long term by betting 2x pot even though you get called 1/5 the time you got called with your tiny bet. Don't just bet to get called, work out what will make the most.
|
|
|
02-08-2012, 09:51 PM
|
#11
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,562
|
Re: Perception vs. Reality - having the nuts
Assuming we play a reasonable range, if we plan to open pre and then follow with a c-bet, by the time those 2 actions have completed, the villain has usually folded. We don't really remember the 1,000 times this happens but we do tend to remember flopping the nuts that 1 time because that happens rarely.
Cliffs: get over it.
|
|
|
02-08-2012, 10:10 PM
|
#12
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Essex, UK
Posts: 4,055
|
Re: Perception vs. Reality - having the nuts
One of the reasons why your bets often don't get called when you have the nuts is that it's kind of hard for a villain to have a decent hand if you have a monster. If you have a set of kings, villain is unlikely to have the case king, so you prefer him to be on a draw that misses, because then you at least get two streets of value. If you make a full house, you kind of need villain to make a flush or trips for him to call your shove.
Half an hour ago I had a ridiculous hand. I flopped quad aces, but there was just no way to get paid because I had the deck completely crippled. I had to slowplay (ldo) and just hope villain made a boat or a flush on the river. Unfortunately, he had nothing at all, so with this absolute monster hand, I only won what went in pre-flop. That's poker!
Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.02(BB) Replayer
SB ($0.78)
BB ($2.39)
UTG ($2.51)
UTG+1 ($1.17)
UTG+2 ($1.35)
Hero ($1.23)
MP2 ($2)
CO ($0.62)
BTN ($0.89)
Dealt to Hero A  A
fold, fold, UTG+2 calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.08, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG+2 calls $0.06
FLOP ($0.19) A  7  A
UTG+2 checks, Hero checks
TURN ($0.19) A  7  A  3
UTG+2 checks, Hero checks
RIVER ($0.19) A  7  A  3  7
UTG+2 checks, Hero bets $0.17, UTG+2 folds
Hero shows A  A
Hero wins $0.18
|
|
|
02-09-2012, 05:38 AM
|
#13
|
|
adept
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: learn to play
Posts: 703
|
Re: Perception vs. Reality - having the nuts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokes
Hero has A  A
RIVER ($0.19) A  7  A  3  7
|
Well,
Don't you think you should have vbet the flop against small pocket pairs? (which generally feel pretty safe on paired boards). Against the guys I play against, I'm pretty sure 66-QQ are calling a flop bet at least.
|
|
|
02-09-2012, 05:43 AM
|
#14
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 4,158
|
Re: Perception vs. Reality - having the nuts
betting this flop is retarded. How can anyone without an ace continue? much better to check and hope he tries to steal it from you.
|
|
|
02-09-2012, 05:48 AM
|
#15
|
|
adept
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: learn to play
Posts: 703
|
Re: Perception vs. Reality - having the nuts
Quote:
Originally Posted by chad0x00
betting this flop is retarded. How can anyone without an ace continue? much better to check and hope he tries to steal it from you.
|
No, the flop is dry. Having two aces on the flop means the probability that hero has one of the two others is low. Thus pocket pairs feel safe. l2p.
Checking and hoping for a bluff is only a good idea if you think villain is aggressive. Most villains at these stakes are more on the passive side. Thus you exploit them by vbetting.
|
|
|
| Thread Tools |
|
|
| Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:31 AM.
|