Villain is 29/22 Afreq of 58 . I took some time and decided to call due in part because that shove after I checked is not usual of someone that wants me to call. Instead he tried to scare me off the pot. What do you guys think?

Merge - $0.04 NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG+1: $4.38
MP: $4.99
CO: $1.65
BTN: $2.63
SB: $4.52
Hero (BB): $4.69
UTG: $4.00

SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.04

Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has Q Q

fold, fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.12, fold, Hero raises to $0.29, BTN calls $0.17

Flop: ($0.60, 2 players) 4 9 J
Hero bets $0.40, BTN raises to $1.05, Hero calls $0.65

Turn: ($2.70, 2 players) J
Hero checks, BTN bets $1.29 and is all-in, Hero calls $1.29

River: ($5.28, 2 players) 7

I wouldn't consider that shove as a shove trying to scare you off.. it's just that he has no more money behind and it's very small bet. He is committed to put his last nickle to play once he raises you on the flop.

I'd actually shove the flop in this situation as you. It's possible he has you beat but laying off QQ in such situation would be crazy. He can call you with flush draw, OESD or lot of junk not just sets.

As played, I don't think you need to tank too deep on that turn card, just snap call and move onward

Yeah , seems pretty standard to me, you have tons of hands in his range beat.

Why not beat him to the punch and put him in on the flop after he raises.

Let me ask u a question, when y called on the flop did u have any sort of plan?

Once you call the flop raise, your turn decision is already made regardless of the card.

Sorry if this is a little off topic but how many steps ahead do you guys ussually plan? 1-2 ? Would more than that prove to difficult for a newbie like me ?

That is not a hero call

good question. ideally you'd have a plan for the entire hand but there will always be times when something you totally hadn't thought of happens.

some hands play themselves. eg if you play a really speculative hand preflop in late position and you wiff then you're done unless you flop the draw you want, the set you want or 2 pair or something........say you play 78s on the button, if the flop comes AT8 and there is lots of action by the time it gets to you....well when you called preflop either subconciously or not you had a plan on what to do (ie fold, right?)

or you might flop top pair with weak kicker on Axx board in limit holdem and plan on check calling down hu and betting on the end because the other guy is a bluffhappy maniac or a tag who is perfectly capable of betting to the river in position when you check, will check back KK on the river but will call when you bet because he can't stand the thought that you'll try and bluff him with a busted draw.

in villians hand hero's plan might have been to call the flop bet and know that all the money is going in on the turn (<1 pot sized bet left) unless one of the obvious scare cards comes in. in this hand he might consider any card that completes the flush or straight or is a J to be a scare card (note: that not all scare cards are created equal)... that might not be the best plan, but its a plan. basically IF he wants to justify that bet/calling that flop is a good play then no matter what turn card comes he should already know what he wants to do.

how to plan ahead? well its part of the dark art of poker but to keep it simple. think about how you want to play your hand, factor in the possible scenarios (pretty hard to cover them all when multiway in pl and nl since bet sizings can be all funky) and think about what you would do when certain cards come or certain bets are made. eg lets say I plan on betting and folding to a Checkraise...then when I do get checkraised I dont have to humm and err and second guess. I had a plan and I execute it.

another seemingly obvious situation would be when you have a baby flush on the turn and your reads tell you that you almost certainly have the best hand. in this case, you would really only be concerned you could have been outdrawn if:
a) a fourth diamond comes on the river
b) the river pairs the board
once youve got this far you can hatch a plan depending on your villian. eg you mgiht bet call a blank card or bet fold a diamond or paired board or do something else to get to SD cheap or snap off a bluff

does that help? basically poker isn't as simple as games like blackjack so you cant dumb it down too much but you can play each hand as it comes.

oh and then you can get into more advanced 'planning' where you can setup your opponent in your current hand to own him in the future.......the sort of stuff that hollywood does in poker movies

disclaimer: don't assume anything I said in the examples is actually correct but do try and get the jist of it.

Solid post Ozi.

Actually I would have payed him on anything except a shove on the flop. After that initial bet all he had behind was 25 bb and kind of lost respect when he shoved the turn. I guess he could have AJ or KJ but i dont see why he would have bet so much on the flop. I did get to win the hand but in retrospect I think I played it horrible. All I am beating here is a bluff.

Solid answer, I came here looking for this informative post.

Villain's raise on the flop commits him to shoving any turn. Was there any card that could come on the turn that you'd be inclined to fold? I'd have thought a Jack is the only one, but you called anyway. If you were gonna call any shove on the turn, you may as well have 3-bet shoved the flop.

As the villain is nearly half stacked and you flop an overpair in a 3-bet preflop...

Well, you're committed here 99% of the time.

I already was commited, on the turn the only 3 cards that would scare me are J A K. The J came but since he was so shortstacked I could not have folded here. Now If he were to be full stacked and he shoves then it is a snap fold. What do you think?

im going to be cruel to be kind.

1.there isnt 3 cards...there is X of each card
2, AJK,,,,read the rest of the thread. ur hand reading skills suck

read my post about having a plan

"After that initial bet all he had behind was 25 bb and kind of lost respect when he shoved the turn. I guess he could have AJ or KJ but i dont see why he would have bet so much on the flop."

ur flop bet comment is lol. it is a raise. standard.

STOP OVERTHINKING. play poker.

Can you elaborate, I don't quite understand what you are saying. You mean I was not committed? I should have folded? What is your advice?

Edit: okay , I understand now. The correct play here would have been to reraise him on the flop.

no worries. although its possible he has an ace or a K basically AK I don't consider to be overly scary given his flop raise. also you'll have to ignore the aggro factor of my last post (but not the sentiment) - I may or may not have posted after having a few drinks hence the lack of tact

Hey no worries, tough love from sensei to pupil.

what hero call?

If you've decided you are calling the turn shove regardless of the card, then flatting imho is better than 3b.

Thanks for the awesome reply, greatly apreciate it.

Please care to explain why? When he reraised he was pretty much pot commited at that point. If we're gonna call the reraise just to instant call the turn we might as well 3bet and get it in?

P.S I'm bad at this game so if anything is wrong with my post/thought procces don't feel hesitant to tell me otherwise :P

I think I agree with this. Is the villain more likely to bet his top-pair on the turn than call a shove on the flop with his top pair? What I mean is, do we think a worse hand is calling a shove on the flop from hero often enough? Is he too committed to ever consider a fold?