Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Beginners Questions Poker beginner ? Ask your (possibly) naive question here and our community will attempt to help you.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-20-2008, 02:17 AM   #201
Cruzerthebruzer
Pooh-Bah
 
Cruzerthebruzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Booooommm! Nightnight
Posts: 5,622
Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

Are you some kind of expert at poker? If not, I would suggest playing stakes much lower than $0.50/$1.00, but if you absolutely insist that you play 100NL, you should have $2,000-$3,000 deposited to advocate correct BR management.

100NL online is a lot higher skilled than the lower stakes at casinos, keep in mind.
Cruzerthebruzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2008, 03:40 AM   #202
Vantek
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Estonia
Posts: 5,849
Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

If you are a beginner and intend to play 0.5/1, fully expect to lose a few thousand dollars before you stop losing, at which point 20 buy-ins ($2000) is usually recommended to survive variance.
Vantek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2008, 05:29 PM   #203
Cry Me A River
Orange is the new Green
 
Cry Me A River's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 23,790
Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

Depends what your goal is. Are you a winning player? Are you going to buy-in full or short? Are you just expecting to lose $X per week? Are you planning to periodically reload? 100NL is not super-scary, but it's not training wheels either if you don't know what you're doing you'll have a very rough time.

If you expect to maintain a bankroll, conventional wisdom is to play with 20 buy-ins.
Cry Me A River is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2008, 05:30 PM   #204
Cry Me A River
Orange is the new Green
 
Cry Me A River's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 23,790
Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

If you're transitioning from live, 1/2 NL live is about equivalent to $.05/$.10 online.


Online players are much, much better than live players at the same stakes. There are a number of reasons why:

1 - Live, the lowest stakes are $1/$2 NL. Online, the lowest stakes are $.01/$.02 NL. So online the worst players are playing $.01/$.02 NL. Live they're playing $1/$2 NL. Online, $.01/$.02 NL is SIX levels below $1/$2 NL.
2 - Getting into a live game is far more casual than an online game. Live games often have inexperienced players stumble into the game on their way from the blackjack tables to the slots. Online you need to download and install the software, register an account and figure out a way to deposit. Online takes a far greater level of dedication JUST TO GET STARTED.
3 - When a player wants to make more money live, he moves up in stakes. Online, he multi-tables. In this way online players are able to put much more money in play while limiting their exposure in any one hand and avoid playing with better players. Online $.5/$1 NL players can make a nice living out of multi-tabling. There aren't very many live $1/$2 NL pros.
4 - No HUDs or Pokertracker live.
5 - Online players see many more hands per hour, particularly if they multi-table. More hands per hour equals more experience equals better play.
6 - Free alcohol in many casinos.
Cry Me A River is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2008, 05:34 PM   #205
MoonOrb
old hand
 
MoonOrb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Creatin' a devastating masterpiece
Posts: 1,755
Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

Also I think it's worth mentioning that online players tend to be more aggressive than live players. Aggressive games are a lot harder imo.
MoonOrb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2008, 12:29 PM   #206
hidden_x_factor
centurion
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 117
Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

Hello all. I know this has been asked before, but I couldn't quite find what I was looking for by searching. What do you think is the best free HUD. I used to use Realtime but it just recently stopped working on me (stopped refreshing stats at the table). I use PT v2 and I play on FT. The only stats I use are VPIP, raise PF, AF, and # of hands. If the HUD had a hand history (like realtime did) that would be even better. Yes I know it's a dumb question, but any help would be greatly appreciated!!
hidden_x_factor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2008, 03:54 PM   #207
qwertyas
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 202
Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

Hey op, I make my own thread on this topic but only got one respeconse

is there much strategical difference between Pot limit Hold em and No Limit Hold em?

I've got about a 15k sample size of 100-200nl vs a 5k sample size of pot limit hold em (only 2.6k is 100-200pl) but man the difference in amount won/lost is huge. Over all for nl im 1 PTBB and for pot limit hold em in -16PTBB :/ Is this just proof that i sux at 100nl/pl level or that pot limit is a completely different machine and is leveling me
qwertyas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2008, 03:59 PM   #208
Shick
veteran
 
Shick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Feeding the Fish
Posts: 2,314
Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

The nature of Pot Limit requires you to play better post flop because of the limited betting structure pre-flop.
Shick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2008, 04:56 PM   #209
Cry Me A River
Orange is the new Green
 
Cry Me A River's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 23,790
Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

Pot limit requires quite a few adjustments. You tend to get a lot more callers when you raise preflop because you can't raise as much and 3betting light is usually a really bad idea because villains will have odds to call with a wide range.

This affects post-flop play considerably... Harder to build when you're starting with a smaller pot, and with everyone have odds to calls and headhunt preflop, your 1pair/overpair type hands go way down in value.
Cry Me A River is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2008, 02:48 PM   #210
bacanef2007
grinder
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 402
Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

fold equity scenerio, need help with logic behind it, math as well. below is fictional scenerio

6max, 50nl. everbody with full buyin: $50

hero on BTN

UTG raises to 1.75
UTG +1 folds
CO folds
Hero w JT calls
blinds fold

flop: Q93 (pot $4.25)

villian bets $3.25 (pot:$7.50)

hero shoves all in for $48.25 (pot: $55.75)

Villian has $45 left. lets say hes got AQo, so hes getting, 55.75/45 = 1.23:1 odds (correct? ) or he needs 1+1.23=2.23, 1/2.23=45% equity to make the call (correct?).

if he puts me on a draw, its an automatic call. since hes got 63.2% pot equity vs JTs. but the reason hero is making play is to represent something better like trip 9's, right.

now if i make that kind of play against a tight player i reckon hes more likely to fold than say a loose player even with TPTK, correct? Assumming i got the image of tight player. or are loose players just as likely to fold? i got no idea, cause i am a tight player personally. hearing from loose players and what they might do, would be good.

or would it be getter to make that play on a two tone board?, because even if i only have a str8 draw rather than a str8, flush draw at least i can represent a combo draw.

i also dont like 3betting, cause he can put me all in. in which case i gotta fold, right?

but heres my problem with this play. how many times does villian have to fold for play to be profitable? i ran ten trials and came up with an expected value of
-$13.6 if he folds 80% of the time!. i dont see that happening personly. thats just a simple senerio. in reality he could have 2pair, trips, or air, right. a more compicated senerio would be to a assign a weighted average or probability to each possible holding vs mine. but i am to lazy.

here is my work

all in fold call
1 7.5
2 -36.8
3 7.5
4 7.5
5 -36.8
6 7.5
7 7.5
8 7.5
9 7.5
10 7.5
60 -73.6

profit/loss -13.6

if he folds i win whats in the pot $7.50. if he calls then i lose -$36.8 dollars on AVERAGE. ($100 is the pot, my equity is approx. 36.8%, so -$36.8)

so am i off base here in my calculations, math by far is not my strong suit.

in conclusion, villain would have to fold 80%++ to make play profitable. that to me seems unlikely. thus i think people underestimate fold equity considerably. thoughts, mr.crymeariver? or anybody who knows what they are talking about.

Last edited by bacanef2007; 06-22-2008 at 02:54 PM.
bacanef2007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2008, 06:29 PM   #211
Goaa
stranger
 
Goaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4
Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzerthebruzer View Post
Are you some kind of expert at poker? If not, I would suggest playing stakes much lower than $0.50/$1.00, but if you absolutely insist that you play 100NL, you should have $2,000-$3,000 deposited to advocate correct BR management.

100NL online is a lot higher skilled than the lower stakes at casinos, keep in mind.
I have played quite a bit at low limits and my br fluctuates, I wasn't going to play .50 1 untill i built a banroll ill probably stay in the 5 10 cent limits and playing smaller sitngos, 5 dollar and that sort of thing. i have just been throwing min deposits on at a time like 25 to 100 dollars. It just goes to fast even to make it ou ahead in the long run. I was thinking about 400 dollars but you guys are the experts so what should i do with 400 dollars beside wad it up and wipe my tail with it?

Last edited by Goaa; 06-22-2008 at 06:30 PM. Reason: i left something out
Goaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2008, 06:34 PM   #212
Cruzerthebruzer
Pooh-Bah
 
Cruzerthebruzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Booooommm! Nightnight
Posts: 5,622
Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

PokerStars 10NL, until $500, then start taking shots at 25nl if you feel comfortable about it, if you drop a couple BI's, build back up with 10NL and try again.
Cruzerthebruzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2008, 06:51 PM   #213
Cry Me A River
Orange is the new Green
 
Cry Me A River's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 23,790
Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

Quote:
in conclusion, villain would have to fold 80%++ to make play profitable. that to me seems unlikely. thus i think people underestimate fold equity considerably. thoughts, mr.crymeariver? or anybody who knows what they are talking about.
I think you mean over-estimate?

The problem is that your huge over-shove looks exactly like what it is, a draw, and any reasonable villain is calling you with any made hand (nobody ever shoves a set there). It also means you risk the maximum amount for the minimum gain. There are much better options, either making a standard raise floating.
Cry Me A River is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2008, 07:00 PM   #214
Cry Me A River
Orange is the new Green
 
Cry Me A River's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 23,790
Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goaa View Post
I have played quite a bit at low limits and my br fluctuates, I wasn't going to play .50 1 untill i built a banroll ill probably stay in the 5 10 cent limits and playing smaller sitngos, 5 dollar and that sort of thing. i have just been throwing min deposits on at a time like 25 to 100 dollars. It just goes to fast even to make it ou ahead in the long run. I was thinking about 400 dollars but you guys are the experts so what should i do with 400 dollars beside wad it up and wipe my tail with it?
Since you have no idea whether or not you can beat any level, I'd suggest if you want to take this seriously, be conservative and start as low as you can stand.
Cry Me A River is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2008, 08:54 PM   #215
RedAlert
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 52
Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

Talk to me about sweating:

1) how does one put a group of people together?

2) How do you guys sweat each other if everyone sucks? How would this help?

3) will you talk about the process, as if you where now looking to put a group together. Starting from where you would post on 2+2 and what it would say....etc.

4) what software is needed?

Thanks for the info.


also, what is 'SD value'?
RedAlert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2008, 09:29 PM   #216
bacanef2007
grinder
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 402
Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry Me A River View Post
I think you mean over-estimate?

The problem is that your huge over-shove looks exactly like what it is, a draw, and any reasonable villain is calling you with any made hand (nobody ever shoves a set there). It also means you risk the maximum amount for the minimum gain. There are much better options, either making a standard raise floating.
True. so are there any instances where you would go all in with combo draws? like a str8 and flush draw for example. or is it just better to 3bet. and if he shoves all in, call him down. vs. TPTK your are a favorite i think, vs set 25% roughly. and vs 2pair somewhere in between i would guess. plus he could be bluffing right?

and why not shove a set, mix it up a little. people just usually fold anyways.

a
bacanef2007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2008, 12:21 AM   #217
Pepwa
adept
 
Pepwa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Adelaide, SA
Posts: 783
Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

Okay my dumb question is:

Why are the high stakes players on stars like always sitting out?
Pepwa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2008, 12:24 AM   #218
Shick
veteran
 
Shick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Feeding the Fish
Posts: 2,314
Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedAlert View Post
also, what is 'SD value'?

Show down value. A made hand that has good equity in a showdown.

I dunno about the rest of it. Ask your friends?
Shick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2008, 01:35 AM   #219
Cry Me A River
Orange is the new Green
 
Cry Me A River's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 23,790
Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepwa View Post
Why are the high stakes players on stars like always sitting out?
They're waiting for you to sit down.

(You probably think I'm joking. I'm not. That's the answer.)
Cry Me A River is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2008, 01:35 AM   #220
Table-Stakes
stranger
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 8
Determining Pot Equity in regards to raising

I having a little bit of confusion with this concept can someone please lend a hand. Thank you.
Table-Stakes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2008, 01:41 AM   #221
Cry Me A River
Orange is the new Green
 
Cry Me A River's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 23,790
Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by bacanef2007 View Post
True. so are there any instances where you would go all in with combo draws? like a str8 and flush draw for example. or is it just better to 3bet. and if he shoves all in, call him down. vs. TPTK your are a favorite i think, vs set 25% roughly. and vs 2pair somewhere in between i would guess. plus he could be bluffing right?
If you raise his cbet and he pushes, the decision to call is a function of pot odds and the range you put him on. ie; Some players are only pushing over your raise with a set. If villain in one of those, you may not have odds to call. Otherwise you've probably priced yourself in. The point is, you usually have more fold equity making a standard raise than a "please don't call me" over-shove.

Quote:
and why not shove a set, mix it up a little. people just usually fold anyways.
You might, rarely, if you have meta-reasons. But usually you're just costing yourself value. I you push instead of raising, he doesn't get the chance to come over the top of you. Giving him the illusion of having fold equity can help you here.

Last edited by Cry Me A River; 06-23-2008 at 01:48 AM.
Cry Me A River is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2008, 01:42 AM   #222
Cry Me A River
Orange is the new Green
 
Cry Me A River's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 23,790
Re: Determining Pot Equity in regards to raising

Quote:
Originally Posted by Table-Stakes View Post
I having a little bit of confusion with this concept can someone please lend a hand. Thank you.
I'm afraid you'll need to be a little more specific.
Cry Me A River is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2008, 01:48 AM   #223
Cry Me A River
Orange is the new Green
 
Cry Me A River's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 23,790
Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedAlert View Post
1) how does one put a group of people together?
They're called "friends".

Quote:
2) How do you guys sweat each other if everyone sucks? How would this help?
Because even players who suck can tell when payers are sucking more.

Quote:
3) will you talk about the process, as if you where now looking to put a group together. Starting from where you would post on 2+2 and what it would say....etc.
I'd start by signing up for session reviews if whichever forum fits your game.

Alternately, post in that forum's chat thread looking for people to do sweats.

Quote:
4) what software is needed?
Depends what you want to do. If you want to do real time then you need AIM/MSN or Skype/Ventrillo, etc. If you want to do session reviews you really just need Poker Tracker (etc) or a hand re-player.
Cry Me A River is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2008, 04:28 AM   #224
RedAlert
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 52
Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

thanks ...CMAR
RedAlert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2008, 04:50 AM   #225
Table-Stakes
stranger
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 8
Re: ***** Official Dumb Questions Thread ****

Determining Pot Equity in regards to raising. Ok what i understand pot equity to be used for is determining wether you should raise or call. I understand that you first need to find out the % of the time that you would hit your draw win at the showdown. But how do you imply that to wether you should raise or not. This is what i dont underrstand. I'm refering to SSHE winnning big with expert play. I hope this is enough
Table-Stakes is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online