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Old 12-18-2008, 06:35 AM   #51
irungood
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Re: Am i just running bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoSeeker View Post
Uh. Your graph is decent. What's your problem? Obviously you want like 7-8BB/100 before you start get cocky. I hope you're not here to show off your graph. If you want comments on your stats, get some more hands in and post it here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32...70/index3.html

Your NSD winnings is good. That's... a good thing You might be blowing away people a bit too much and thus losing value when opponetns have marginal hands, though.
thats what i figured, i dont think im getting value out of my hands a good amount of times, i thought all the coaches say value bet, so i try to stay aggressive. should i check the flop and show weakness/let them catch up a little?

heres an example of one where i dont think i got enough value.

Poker Stars $25.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $32.00
BTN: $7.25
Hero (SB): $37.35
BB: $15.00
UTG: $53.30

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is SB with K A
1 fold, CO calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.75, 1 fold, CO calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.75) 2 9 K (2 players)
Hero bets $1.00, CO folds
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Old 12-18-2008, 06:44 AM   #52
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

irungood, the thing is your opponents wont always have a hand they can call with and so there is no value to be had........so all you can do is make the +EV play and hope they have something they can call with that you beat and that doesnt suckout on you. TPTK on a board that has some draws isnt a hand you want to slowplay

also your betsizing in that hand is not good...4xBB+1 per limpers works. Bet like at least $1.25 here. You have AK and are going to be OOP. your raise size basically lets CO and BB see a cheap flop and thats not good poker. so yeah, you could have got more value here by raising more preflop and having him call. your flop bet is too small too also.
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Old 12-18-2008, 06:57 AM   #53
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

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Originally Posted by OziBattler View Post
irungood, the thing is your opponents wont always have a hand they can call with and so there is no value to be had........so all you can do is make the +EV play and hope they have something they can call with that you beat and that doesnt suckout on you. TPTK on a board that has some draws isnt a hand you want to slowplay

also your betsizing in that hand is not good...4xBB+1 per limpers works. Bet like at least $1.25 here. You have AK and are going to be OOP. your raise size basically lets CO and BB see a cheap flop and thats not good poker. so yeah, you could have got more value here by raising more preflop and having him call. your flop bet is too small too also.
thanks for the analysis ozibattler. question, in your other post you say im a bit too nitty for 6-max. should i be raising pf more? i mean probably the loosest i get pf is 97s on button.. maybe cutoff if i feel the table is pretty nitty and wont three bet much.
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Old 12-18-2008, 08:43 AM   #54
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

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i mean probably the loosest i get pf is 97s on button.. maybe cutoff if i feel the table is pretty nitty and wont three bet much
Pretty standard.
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Old 12-18-2008, 09:40 AM   #55
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

What are rough guidelines for afq and af?
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:08 AM   #56
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Re: Am i just running bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by irungood View Post
thats what i figured, i dont think im getting value out of my hands a good amount of times, i thought all the coaches say value bet, so i try to stay aggressive. should i check the flop and show weakness/let them catch up a little?

heres an example of one where i dont think i got enough value.

Poker Stars $25.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $32.00
BTN: $7.25
Hero (SB): $37.35
BB: $15.00
UTG: $53.30

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is SB with K A
1 fold, CO calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.75, 1 fold, CO calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.75) 2 9 K (2 players)
Hero bets $1.00, CO folds
No, I wouldn't check that flop.


Ozi's, right. Bet more pre with the limper.

Value bet more on that flop.

You're betting for value, not checking to let them catch up for value. You don't want them to catch up much with that hand.
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Old 12-18-2008, 04:57 PM   #57
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

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thanks for the analysis ozibattler. question, in your other post you say im a bit too nitty for 6-max. should i be raising pf more? i mean probably the loosest i get pf is 97s on button.. maybe cutoff if i feel the table is pretty nitty and wont three bet much.
i just meant you probably could play a few more hands but understand that this will put you in more tough spots....spots that can be +EV if played well but can also lead to spewage. for example, the easiest spots to add a few more hands may be to increase your stealing range particularly when you have to tight players in the blinds or to increase your isolation range when you have a bad player limp in front of you.
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Old 12-18-2008, 05:19 PM   #58
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

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i just meant you probably could play a few more hands but understand that this will put you in more tough spots....spots that can be +EV if played well but can also lead to spewage. for example, the easiest spots to add a few more hands may be to increase your stealing range particularly when you have to tight players in the blinds or to increase your isolation range when you have a bad player limp in front of you.
i think iso betting is my weakness live. in live no one respects my iso raises so it ends up being like a 5 way pot when i bet out around 7bb's pf (usually in button or cutoff). before i would be on such a sick heater and catch every flop while of course usually getting paid off big time (ended up coming up 30buyins in less than a month) but now its much harder since im basically missing everytime in these multiway pots. how should i play these players? i mean it is only a 36% chance i hit the flop so this cant be good. i play the same style i do in live and online, except in live i have a little tighter range since its usually a FR game.
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Old 12-18-2008, 09:11 PM   #59
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

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Originally Posted by RoSeeker View Post
That's a pretty good sign for you already, minus maybe the cashing out part. I don't understand how other people who realize that they can win thousands of dollars playing poker can resist the urge to keep playing and move up.
It wasn't really about not having the urge, it was more just prioritizing my free time. This time is different and my goal right now is to be able to beat the $1/$2nl.

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Originally Posted by RoSeeker View Post
Anyway, your winrate: Sir, I envy your winrate. It seems that you do not multi table a lot though. 6 or so tables I guess? So take my comments with a bit of salt in that regard.
90% of the time I only 2-table with the rest 3-tabling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoSeeker View Post
Despite all this, I really don't like your VPIP/PFR numbers. 30/13 is a really fishy stat. You're too passive preflop, and also quite passive postflop. Your 3bet isn't so bad, but it should be around 5. The fact that you managed to have 55% W$SD despite a 29 WTSD, I must assume that you're either running quite hot (not too impossible over just 9k hands) or super sharp with reads.
Good info, thanks. I posted data based on 25K hands, and the 55 W$SD / 29 WTSD is pretty consistent at all the levels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoSeeker View Post
In fact, your stats overall look quite impossible. I'm not too sure how to respond to this. You fold to a lot of C-Bets too, and you cold call FAR too often in the SB. The fact that you win money in the SB is somewhat mindboggling.
Agreed on the SB stat - the 100CCPF stat from 3rd position makes me wonder if there's something screwy. Here's the most recent 15K hands at 10 and 25nl only, which includes a more realistic SB result, but I think I'm still getting involved there way too much...


By mrkite08 at 2008-12-18

I appreciate the feedback, thanks!
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Old 12-18-2008, 09:49 PM   #60
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

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IIRC, your ATTS% is pretty high already.

What's IIRC mean?
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:25 PM   #61
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

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What's IIRC mean?
If I Remember Correctly
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:33 PM   #62
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

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If I Remember Correctly
lol, oh. I think that's the last popular acronym here that I didn't know the meaning of so all taken care of now I think. And btw I posted my stats earlier in this thread so no need to recall, could have just scrolled up and looked.
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:36 PM   #63
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

I can't keep track of what's in what thread, are you crazy?
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:46 PM   #64
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

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I can't keep track of what's in what thread, are you crazy?

Oh yea, true .... guess I let my mind get away from me a little there.
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:47 PM   #65
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

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Oh yea, true .... guess I let my mind get away from me a little there.
I'm not CMAR, you know.
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:52 PM   #66
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

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I'm not CMAR, you know.
Oh? Does CMAR have a good memory?

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Old 12-18-2008, 10:54 PM   #67
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

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Oh? Does CMAR have a good memory?

When it comes to the forums, he's the ****.
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:57 PM   #68
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

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When it comes to the forums, he's the ****.

He's alright.







Nah, he's pretty good.






We're kinda clogging up this thread though. lol
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Old 12-24-2008, 04:09 PM   #69
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Alright I just completed 2nl and here are my results, what do you think?







Have I posted the right reports?
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Old 12-25-2008, 05:59 AM   #70
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

2NL handles quite differently from 10 and 25NL becuase you're deep and players are so passive, so you limp a lot more, I would think. I think your focus should be br building and moving up. Anyway, here we go:

12BB/100 is pretty good, even for 2NL, so you're doing all right. I think it's time to move up from that stat alone.

As mentioned, this could be a result of being 200bb deep and be aginst loose oppoennts, but your PFR needs to be much closer to your VPIP. I also think you can play more hand profitably vs worse opponents, and as such I'd run something like 17/14, but an even tighter one should be what you are aiming for if you want to run a good TAG preflop game for higher levels. Your W$SD is fine, though could be a bit better, but in general the stats are quite fine.

Overall you seem to be quite positionally aware, which is good. SB can be tighter, though.

More stats like AF, Af%, 3bet/4bet, etc would be useful too.

You're ready to move up. Also, I recommend moving to 6Max instead. It's the place to be nowadays.
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Old 12-25-2008, 02:34 PM   #71
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Thanks for the input Ro. For the first half of the hands, when I'd get KT, TJ in late position, I would just limp, then after some discussion, I've started raising with them and notice the difference. The first 10k hands, I was probably around 20-25% V$PIP as well, thanks to some sweat sessions, my game greatly improved.

I have moved up to 5nl and I'm only going to stay there until my roll gets to 300, then I'm going to play 10nl. Other stats as requested. I'm curious why you recommend 6 max, higher winrate?

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Old 12-26-2008, 06:52 AM   #72
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Higher winrate, definetly, also more tables. It's more profitable and also it gets you into more profitably marginal sitautions and improves you as a poker player. Even if you want to play FR mostly, being good at 6Max will help, just as playing HU helped my 6Max game tremendously.
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Old 12-30-2008, 01:36 PM   #73
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

Started playing cash games primarily over the last month or so after being a mainly SnG player. As I'd not played much in the way of cash games prior to this I wanted to work up from NL2 to whatever level decent BR management dictated. I was originally going to play 10k hands at each level below my current bankroll limits to make sure i could beat it before moving up. However i'm finding myself wanting to move up from 2NL after just under 5k hands. Would you recommend moving up to 5NL now and not bothering with 2NL (unless i drop a fair few BI's at 5NL) or would my original plan of playing at least 10k hands at each level be more advisable?

Anyway, these are my current stats at NL2. Oh and my BR is currently sat at $280





Thanks in advance

Edit: Also is it normal to be in profit in the blinds? I'm guessing the small sample size is the main reason for this
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Old 12-30-2008, 01:44 PM   #74
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

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However i'm finding myself wanting to move up from 2NL after just under 5k hands. Would you recommend moving up to 5NL now and not bothering with 2NL (unless i drop a fair few BI's at 5NL) or would my original plan of playing at least 10k hands at each level be more advisable?

Anyway, these are my current stats at NL2. Oh and my BR is currently sat at $280

Thanks in advance

Edit: Also is it normal to be in profit in the blinds? I'm guessing the small sample size is the main reason for this
10k hands isn't really a huge sample size. That being said, you seem to be doing ok at 2nl and you've played higher. However I'd caution that if you start taking shortcuts at 2nl, it creates the wrong habbits for later.

That being said, there isn't too much to learn at 2nl, so if you are going to play under you bankroll, maybe try doing this:

2nl 5k hands minimum + bankroll rules
5nl 10k hands minimum + bankroll rules
10nl 20k hands minimum + bankroll rules
25nl & up, you can either set 20k as your minimum or make your own minimum.

Currently my coach has me playing at least 35k hands at each limit, I find it a good medium considering I multi table and can play 20k hands in a good week.
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Old 12-30-2008, 02:00 PM   #75
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Re: ** Official Beginners NL Holdem Stats Thread **

I think my main problem is that i'm finding the profits coming a hell of a lot slower in cash games than they did in SnG's. I think i'll follow your suggestions on playing an increasing number of hands at each level. Sometimes takes me a while to get the volume in though because of other commitments and only playing 4 tables max. Think i'll play another hour or so of NL2 tonight then see how i get on with NL5 in the new year
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