Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude-Bun
I would also absolutely love to read about the check/shove river move, for value and as a bluff. What is the reason behind it? when to apply? examples etc.
river check/shoves are hard to find it my database, its not something i really make a habit of doing. mainly because a lot of people dont value bet thinly enough (which is a major leak of a lot of players) and therefore most of the times i go for a check/raise, they end up checking back.
theres is no interesting ones at micro stakes because only time anyone bets the river in position is when they have like the 2nd nuts, so its just super coolers if we do end up getting it in (also since people only bet monsters, its impossible to check/raise bluff)
heres a check/shove for value though. villain is a semi-reg, not particularly good but obv not terribad.
Full Tilt $400.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official
2+2 Hand Converter
Powered By DeucesCracked.com
CO: $394.05
BTN: $439.00
Hero (SB): $794.10
BB: $400.00
UTG: $443.00
MP: $581.30
Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is SB with 2
2
4 folds,
Hero raises to $16, BB calls $12
Flop: ($32.00) K
8
5
(2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks
i dont see the point of cbetting here - i think i get floated a lot on boards like this and its going to be really hard to play turn cards. i was planing to just fold to any bet by him after checking
Turn: ($32.00) 2
(2 players)
Hero bets $20.00, BB calls $20
obviously i bink off a 2 outer and value bet. hopefully he floats the turn or has some sort of pair which he can call with.
River: ($72.00) 8
(2 players)
Hero checks,
i check for 2 reasons. 1) if he was just on a pure float then this is a really good river card to bluff at, as he can represent 8x or backdoor hearts.
2) if he has 8x or a flush, he is going to value bet himself when i check, whereas if i lead he may only call (i would only call if i had a weak flush or 8x).
BB bets $100.00,
Hero raises to $758.10, BB calls $264 all in
Final Pot: $800.00
Hero shows 2
2
Hero wins $797.00
(Rake: $3.00)
he mucked A
7
, not sure why it doesnt show in the converter.
i dont like his river overbet, because my hand looks like total air when i check the flop, bet the turn, check the river. overbets are cool in times when i can hero call, but since i look like i have absolutely nothing i really dont like it here.
i certainly dont like his call of my shove, since i am never ever shoving a worse hand for value (if i checked a weak flush it would be to check/call), and its also a spot where i am never bluffing since my hand looks crazy weak when i check, bet, check.
heres a river check/shove as a bluff.
villain is a standard tagfish, representative of what you will find a lot at 100nl - playing far too many tables trying to maximise hourly/ rakeback earnings, without paying attention to whats going on.
Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official
2+2 Hand Converter
Powered By DeucesCracked.com
CO: $69.10
BTN: $86.25
Hero (SB): $123.55
BB: $100.00
UTG: $215.40
MP: $100.00
Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is SB with T
T
1 fold,
MP raises to $3,
2 folds, Hero calls $2.50,
1 fold
i decide to flat because i want to keep in hands that i am really far ahead of, and i dont think he is aggro enough to put me in tough spots post flop, i think he will just be pretty straight forward - cbetting 75% or so, then giving up if he gets called (like most tagfish do at this level).
Flop: ($7.00) 5
3
7
(2 players)
Hero checks,
MP bets $4, Hero calls $4
as expected, he makes a standard cbet so i call. no value in raising, i think that puts me in a tough spot as i dont know how he reacts (different players react really different to check/raises - some think it always = nuts, some think its always bluff etc)
Turn: ($15.00) A
(2 players)
Hero checks,
MP bets $10, Hero calls $10
i expect him to barrel broadway cards a lot, because obviously he can represent AJ/ AQ/ AK etc. so i think he bets the ace turn like 100% of the time unless he has something like 88, which he will just check and take to showdown...
River: ($35.00) 5
(2 players)
Hero checks,
MP bets $21,
now when he bets again i think he is looking for thin value from something like AJ. since hes playing a lot of tables, i think he would just bet big and hope i call if he has something like a boat. so his sizing indicates thin value.
i think i can check/raise and represent a slowplayed boat or some weird 5x (he doesnt know me well enough to know i wont play 56s or 54s from the blinds, i dont think).
Hero raises to $106.55 all in, MP folds
something to note about players who you see on lots of tables.... if you have ever played 10+ tables yourself, you will know that you dont want to be put in tough decisions because your attention needs to be on other tables.
here, i dont represent a great deal on the river with my check/raise, i literally have a boat or nothing.
however, since he doesnt want to focus all his attention on 1 table, he isnt going to timebank for like 45 seconds thinking about everything i could have... his thought process is likely to be "he c/c c/c c/shove, he must have it, i fold".
moral is, if you are playing people who are on a bunch of tables, spend your timing making moves on them when they make it obvious that they have anything less than a super strong hand because they arent going to be competent hand reads and will just believe you have it