NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit - Page 21 - Beginning Poker Questions

**Ice_W0lf** · 07-04-2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PraguePoker

Jack: thanks so much for this. I think there is really a market for this kind of analysis and instruction. Too many poker books are for the brick and mortar pro, typically playing at higher stakes than me. Yes, there's lots to learn from these books, but it doesn't really do it for the advanced beginner playing low stakes on-line. I'm reminded of the Silman books in chess. Before him, most books were for grandmasters written by other grandmasters. It was very hard to follow. Then Silman's books went after the 1600-2000 ELO range, and that's where all the money is..... And btw, it was his instructional work - playing more games with advanced beginners - that made him realize there was a real need to write books for this market. Similar to what you're doing by playing lower stakes.

Harrington's books are fantastic. They have helped me more than anything. But it's only in his second volume of Cash Games where he addresses the style of play found at the levels I play. His chapter on this was great, but I'd love to have more. Your hand analysis and thought process presented here could really find a niche in the market. Just a thought!

My only (very minor) complaint is that you seem to use a lot of jargon. Am I the only one who can't follow it? As an example:

his stats are like 22/11 which means his pre flop game has leaks.

What does 22/11 refer to? Should I know this. :-)

A little less jargon would be great. Or at least explain it the first time you use it. I'd appreciate your help here, as well.

Again, thanks! Looking forward to more!

Read the beginners faq... 22/11 refers to pt3/hem numbers. 22 is vp$ip.. meaning he voluntarily puts money into the pot preflop 22% of his hands.. 11 refers to the % of the time he raises preflop.. and a gap that large is way too big, because you are flatting way too much.

stry67 · 07-04-2009, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackwilcox

the problem is its still going to be hard to stack someone as it doesnt take a genius to see you are trying to build a pot post flop and most people are likely to get away from top pair.

also, you will find as you move up that people start squeezing more and more, therefore you are going to just be wasting $$ flatting in position because you will have to fold to the 3bet behind you.

I was playing 25NL till I took a huge chunk out of my BR to buy a new LCD and now am back @ 5NL. At 5NL I see sooo many ppl stacking off or being stations with OP's, TP and 2pairs not to mention chasing any and all draws they flop. How would this change your opinon of setmining or 3bet bluffing small pp's?

Birkin · 07-04-2009, 05:14 PM

ty op, just read all your comments and especially enjoyed your post on 4betting. Keep it up!

jackwilcox · 07-04-2009, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stry67

I was playing 25NL till I took a huge chunk out of my BR to buy a new LCD and now am back @ 5NL. At 5NL I see sooo many ppl stacking off or being stations with OP's, TP and 2pairs not to mention chasing any and all draws they flop. How would this change your opinon of setmining or 3bet bluffing small pp's?

it does depend on the level you play. i guess at 5nl there are more monkeys who stack off easily, but certainly at nl25 there seems to be a hell of a lot of nitty regs. and as u move up, you will find it increasingly more difficult to get paid when u flop a set.

of course you need to take reads on people, if im at a table where a huge fish opens from early position, then im going to set mine over 3betting because a) hes unlikely to fold to my 3bet, and b) hes likely to stack off pretty lightly post flop. however, against regs, you are just so unlikely to get paid

str8 burnt · 07-04-2009, 05:24 PM

thanks jack you answered my questions quite nicely in your latest posts

can you give out your full tilt sn so i can truly know your the man by looking you up on tableratings? If not, its certainly understandable

stry67 · 07-04-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackwilcox

it does depend on the level you play. i guess at 5nl there are more monkeys who stack off easily, but certainly at nl25 there seems to be a hell of a lot of nitty regs. and as u move up, you will find it increasingly more difficult to get paid when u flop a set.

of course you need to take reads on people, if im at a table where a huge fish opens from early position, then im going to set mine over 3betting because a) hes unlikely to fold to my 3bet, and b) hes likely to stack off pretty lightly post flop. however, against regs, you are just so unlikely to get paid

Hey thanks for the response. Gonna bug ya with another Q now, lol.
If your looking through your db to see if setmining is profitable for you: A)What should your sample size be to get a good indication? B)What kinda winrate should ya be looking for with 7's-2's? ( I know this will be a very variable-dependent number but generally speaking)

jackwilcox · 07-04-2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by str8 burnt

thanks jack you answered my questions quite nicely in your latest posts

can you give out your full tilt sn so i can truly know your the man by looking you up on tableratings? If not, its certainly understandable

lol i am hardly 'the man'. for a mid-stakes player my tr isnt v.impressive at all

but my sn on ftp is jackwilcox1

jackwilcox · 07-04-2009, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stry67

Hey thanks for the response. Gonna bug ya with another Q now, lol.
If your looking through your db to see if setmining is profitable for you: A)What should your sample size be to get a good indication? B)What kinda winrate should ya be looking for with 7's-2's? ( I know this will be a very variable-dependent number but generally speaking)

filtered for 22-77 my winrate is 25ptbb/100 - obviously because i am giving up if i dont flop a set usually.

my vpip with these hand is only 87% which would indicate im folding them some of the time - like i said playing them out the blinds, or in position when theres someone behind you is going to squeeze, can make it impossible to show a profit so therefore is best to 3bet yourself or fold.

obviously i dont 3bet every time with them purely because of gameflow (if ive been 3betting a lot lately then it wont get much respect) of if the original opener is a maniac who will 4bet me all the time

martin9_90 · 07-05-2009, 03:25 PM

jack would be gratefull if you would reveal what hand you had the other day when i 5bet shoved AK into your 4bet COvBTN after timing down alittle and you said

'might have got a call if you didn't slowroll'

and whats your reasoning behind this

Spoiler:

and btw i don't think it counts as a slowroll for sing half of timebank to 5bet shove :P

str8 burnt · 07-05-2009, 06:07 PM

I gotta make it to nl 200 jack and I think you can show me the way. Just a few more question for ya on refining my game

Earlier in the thread you said you like to 3 bet the broadway offsuit(you said you flat the suited variety) cards from the button because of card removal effects. Do you do this all the time or are you looking for specific things like villian is atleast 18/15 and you only do it a certain percentage of the time against these players. Are you only doing it if their raise is from utg+1 or will u do on their utg raise also. Fish tend to limp a ton and rarely raise preflop so do you not do it to them as their raising range is pretty strong and their pretty much never folding to a 3 bet.

I also would like to know about your blind play excluding bvb. What hands to you play here against single raises and will you only call with small pairs when theres 2 villians in the hand. I guess your always 3 bet stacking off with jj+. Any other things you think are important regarding the blinds like squeezing or 3 betting some different kind of hands would be appreciated

jackwilcox · 07-05-2009, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martin9_90

jack would be gratefull if you would reveal what hand you had the other day when i 5bet shoved AK into your 4bet COvBTN after timing down alittle and you said

'might have got a call if you didn't slowroll'

and whats your reasoning behind this

Spoiler:

and btw i don't think it counts as a slowroll for sing half of timebank to 5bet shove :P

when you 3bet, you already know whether you are shoving over a 4bet or not, so the only reason people request time is to make themselves seem weak. i have never once seen someone request time before shoving and then have them NOT show either AA/KK or AK

jackwilcox · 07-05-2009, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by str8 burnt

I gotta make it to nl 200 jack and I think you can show me the way. Just a few more question for ya on refining my game

Earlier in the thread you said you like to 3 bet the broadway offsuit(you said you flat the suited variety) cards from the button because of card removal effects. Do you do this all the time or are you looking for specific things like villian is atleast 18/15 and you only do it a certain percentage of the time against these players. Are you only doing it if their raise is from utg+1 or will u do on their utg raise also. Fish tend to limp a ton and rarely raise preflop so do you not do it to them as their raising range is pretty strong and their pretty much never folding to a 3 bet.

I also would like to know about your blind play excluding bvb. What hands to you play here against single raises and will you only call with small pairs when theres 2 villians in the hand. I guess your always 3 bet stacking off with jj+. Any other things you think are important regarding the blinds like squeezing or 3 betting some different kind of hands would be appreciated

nothing happens all the time. if i have 3bet some guy 4 times in a row then im not going to 3bet him light the next time round, im going to wait for a good hand because i think he will be impatient with me and want to shove lighter.

as regards type of player... im just looking for someone who folds to a lot of 3bets and preferably for them to be in late position when they raise (more of a chance they are stealing).

i am super nitty out the blinds tbh, i will flat some hands to button opens such as AT etc. 3betting again is just a situation specific thing, im only going to do it if i havent 3bet in a while. but generally you dont want to play big pots out of position, so you dont want to be playing too many hands from the blinds at all.

and also, i dont think people should start monkey 3betting just because they have a certain hands. i know i said 3betting small pairs is good because it means you break even pre flop instead of having to set mine, but if you start 3betting every pocket pair, and a bunch of broadway cards, and some connectors, your 3bet% will be like 20% which would just be crazy!

str8 burnt · 07-05-2009, 06:36 PM

all right i got ya, I guess only thing left is some c bet and post flop questions im sure ill come up with after the 3 bets

jackwilcox · 07-05-2009, 06:52 PM

they are a little more complex tbh, so i would only be able to give specific hand suggestions really

nawledge4pwr · 07-05-2009, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackwilcox

but my sn on ftp is jackwilcox1

What is your SN on stars? Sorry if you've already answered this question...I haven't read the entire thread even though I intend to since I'm sure there are some gold nuggets in it.