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Old 05-30-2009, 02:29 PM   #16
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

The idea is to do this first then post; posting first is just stroking your own ego; lol at you being a midstakes reg btw .
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Old 05-30-2009, 02:33 PM   #17
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackwilcox View Post
dont understand why im being flamed tbh. its not like im trying to make a brag here or anything, im just trying to offer something back to the forums. i know lots of people here play NL10, and i think it might be useful to some of them. especially if i can offer something more conventional than "dont bluff ever"

if its not useful to you, then fine, but why spam a thread that some people might find helpful??
I concur. GL jack with your mission, I will be following.
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Old 05-30-2009, 02:36 PM   #18
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

Quote:
Originally Posted by BitchiBee View Post
The idea is to do this first then post; posting first is just stroking your own ego; lol at you being a midstakes reg btw .
i have technically done it already from NL50-NL400, and the point is that i cant remember much/ any of the game play at <100. if i did it before i started i would a) be less motivated. b) forgotten some of the stuff i found. i dont even know if i will be able to do it or offer useful advice - that would certainly look ridiculous if im supposedly doing this for 'ego'.

and 2/4 is my regular game, so how is that not midstakes lol. i just apologise for being a student and not having put in a gazillion hands at the level yet
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Old 05-30-2009, 02:39 PM   #19
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

calling your self a midstakes reg when you've put in less then 50K hands at 200nl+ with your winrate is delusional.

You should atleast put in some hands before you start; all I see is you're going to play 2k hands at 10nl then say f it; doing this purely for attention.
Meh, I'll stay out of your thread.
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Old 05-30-2009, 04:19 PM   #20
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

do you guys have epic battles midstakes bitchibee and jack?

How would you know his winrate? Just curious lol sounds like theres a history here

anyways gl jack ill be followin your blog
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Old 05-30-2009, 05:02 PM   #21
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

Ill be following ur little mission too..just curious, are u intending to show a few hands now and again or how are u intending to show us things uve noticed abt each level? any videos planned? would be helpful to see a 2/4 player plays in tough spots!
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Old 05-30-2009, 05:17 PM   #22
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

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Originally Posted by Timmex View Post
do you guys have epic battles midstakes bitchibee and jack?

How would you know his winrate? Just curious lol sounds like theres a history here

anyways gl jack ill be followin your blog
me and bitchibee have never had any battles lol, we have just disagreed in our comments in various threads. i can kinda see where he is coming from with what he is saying but i think its a bit unnecessary. i think i just annoy him tbh, but ah well.
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Old 05-30-2009, 05:33 PM   #23
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

i'll be following too. currently beating 10nl for 10 BB/100 and looking to move up to 25nl soon so this thread will be usefull for me.

cheers
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Old 05-30-2009, 05:36 PM   #24
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

I will be following. Any chance you want to give out your SN for sweat purposes? Or better yet, run teamviewer? That would be sweet.
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Old 05-30-2009, 05:40 PM   #25
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

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I will be following. Any chance you want to give out your SN for sweat purposes? Or better yet, run teamviewer? That would be sweet.
if he posted his sn here think of all the little 2p2'ers wanting to try and get a little famous and sit at his table just to try and felt him so they could come back to this thread and brag about it. I bet also whichever table he was at he would have a 7+ waiting list lol.
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Old 05-30-2009, 05:45 PM   #26
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

I think this is a great idea
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Old 05-30-2009, 05:48 PM   #27
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

GL mate as a NL10 player I am defo interested in this thread
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Old 05-30-2009, 06:02 PM   #28
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

Quote:
Originally Posted by BitchiBee View Post
calling your self a midstakes reg when you've put in less then 50K hands at 200nl+ with your winrate is delusional.

You should atleast put in some hands before you start; all I see is you're going to play 2k hands at 10nl then say f it; doing this purely for attention.
Meh, I'll stay out of your thread.
STFU and GTFO if you don't want to read it. Many of us small stakes players would like to see what comes of this if you don't mind. Thanks for taking the time to do this Jack.
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Old 05-30-2009, 06:06 PM   #29
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

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STFU and GTFO if you don't want to read it. Many of us small stakes players would like to see what comes of this if you don't mind. Thanks for taking the time to do this Jack.
lol e z cheech he was just voicing his opinion

how often u gonna be updating just curious
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Old 05-30-2009, 06:13 PM   #30
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Re: NL10 to NL200 experiment - finding a way to beat each limit

ok have played like 3 hours today of 6-tabling 10NL today. had some nice coolers put on me but never mind, am up a little bit after like 1700 hands or so, but its such a small sample its kind of irrelevant. i was playing pretty loose - 27/23 with a 3bet of 7.5% - those stats are much looser than i usually play, but i just wanted to get into a few interesting spots (meh, i got into some, though most were pretty standard unfortunalely)

will post some stuff, its obv a little results orientated i cant really help that after one session, but i like the plays i made in the hands that i post. here are some of the things i noticed that stand out most:

timing tells are so apparent especially amongst the ultra fishy players.

example:

i raise on the button to 30c with AT
sb folds and the bb calls. bb is a 60/4 drooler with aggro factor 0.8. will call 3 streets with any pair and chases any draw.

flop comes 47T

bb insta-checks i bet 60c and he insta-calls.

turn comes 6

bb thinks for a couple of seconds, checks i bet $1.3 and he insta-min raises to $2.6.

3 tells are apparent here:

insta-check, insta-call = i have a draw.
thinking for a split second = that card changed my hand, what shall i do
insta- min raising = i have the nuts.

if you watch for timing tells such as these you will have a real easy job improving your winrate. fwiw, i would fold any 2 pair on this board in a flash. a set would be very close as would any straight other than 89. 89 i would probably call and try to get to showdown real cheap

regs are really straight forward.

example.

reg opens in the CO to 30c.
i flat on the button with someting like 87s.
flop comes K64.
he cbets half pot like i expect, i call.
turn comes a 2.
he checks.....almost 100% of the time he is giving up on the pot. i bet $1, he folds.

most regs who i saw playing had cbet% of near 100%. maybe my sample was too small, but it certainly indicates that most are just on auto-pilot playing numerous tables, cbet because its good to, and then give up. exploit these by just floating a bunch of flops. im not saying its bad to cbet a lot - against fish its optimal because they give up when they miss - but if u can learn to beat the regs your edge will be massive. and these spots are just so simple to make money from them.

further example, this time of a 3bet pot situation:

Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $9.90
Hero (CO): $23.05
BTN: $3.30
SB: $15.80
BB: $10.00

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with 8 7
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.30, 1 fold, SB raises to $1.10, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.80

Flop: ($2.30) J J 9 (2 players)
SB bets $1.60, Hero calls $1.60

Turn: ($5.50) 7 (2 players)
SB bets $4, Hero raises to $20.35 all in, SB folds

this villain was a really straight forward reg, playing like standard 19/17 or so, had a 9% 3bet at this point which was quite high though only a small sample. i only call this because we are 150bb deep and i think i can mess with him post flop. 100bb deep i would never call fwiw without a lot more reads.
so flop he cbets - i expect him to cbet this flop with like 100% of his range either for value or as a bluff. i call with my draw thinking i can either hit and win obv, or he will check turn to give up.
turn i was a little surprised he kept betting i expect him to check. but the added equity i pick up from making a pair, means that i dont need THAT much fold equity to shove here profitably. i dont expect him to fold QQ+ altho i think he might let QQ go potentially if he is super nitty. even when we are called we are not in terrible shape at all:

Board: Jc 9c Jd 7d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 37.922% 37.92% 00.00% 584 0.00 { 8c7c }
Hand 1: 62.078% 62.08% 00.00% 956 0.00 { TT+, AJs+ }

from doing calculations he needs to fold like 15% of the time for this to be profitable based on our equity in the pot. this is like such a mandatory shove in this situation imo.

from the opposite side of the fench, once u cbet, it doesnt mean u cant fire a 2nd or 3rd barrel sometimes. like i said above where regs seem to have 100% cbet, most of them were giving up on the turn. you can bluff sometimes

example

Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: $12.25
BB: $10.30
UTG: $12.65
CO: $14.10
Hero (BTN): $23.80

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with 4 5
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, SB calls $0.25, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.70) 2 3 T (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.40, SB calls $0.40

Turn: ($1.50) Q (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1, SB calls $1

River: ($3.50) Q (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.50, SB folds

the villain in this hand was a super fish, chasing everything but rarely betting, and not making any moves.

on the river i obv cant win by checking.... but think about his range. it include a few pairs of course, but considering he chases anything, he can have a ridiculous amount of draws. any 2 clubs, any gutshot, he is calling 2 streets with. but he isnt calling the river after missing. he needs to fold 30% of the time to break even, and i think the range he gets to the river with includes missed draws a lot more than 30% of the time.


will post some more tomorrow about some other things i noticed because i dont want this to be exceptionally long and boring post (even though it probably is). i want to post a little more specific stuff about maximising vs ranges, and also about making thin value bets/ raises. hope you guys enjoyed this so far though.

Last edited by jackwilcox; 05-30-2009 at 06:22 PM.
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