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Old 05-03-2017, 12:06 PM   #76
blackspoker
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based card game... What do you think of it?

I really believe you will all be on same page as I am, after a while about nil poker. I really understand it is hard to predict everything, too. I also understand it is hard to talk about something that is completely new, too (it is hard to make up your mind about new things in general) . If I do understand correcty, the only reason that majority of people here say that they do not like nil poker (played as on-line app) is this: because less experienced players will not want to play nil poker. Please correct me if I am wrong? As it is pretty obvious every good player will want to play nil poker instead of poker(52-card deck) -more money to be made for good poker players while playing nil poker instead of poker(52-card deck).
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Old 05-03-2017, 12:13 PM   #77
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based card game... What do you think of it?

Quote:
If I do understand correcty, the only reason that majority of people here say that they do not like nil poker (played as on-line app) is this: because less experienced players will not want to play nil poker.
Wrong.

Quote:
Please correct me if I am wrong? As it is pretty obvious every good player will want to play nil poker instead of poker(52-card deck) -more money to be made for good poker players while playing nil poker instead of poker(52-card deck).
Literally every player here, some of them winning professional poker players (hi, like me) have absolutely no interest in your game for a variety of reasons.

I think it will very clearly be less skill-based than standard NLHE, actually, because a whole class of hands (hands with a nil card) are unplayable and so many decisions will be made automatically. You will be able to play a very small fraction of hands in nil poker games, and they will be extremely tight, simple, and boring.

Almost nobody remotely good at this game cares at all about "equity once allin," it's not nearly the most important factor re skill in poker.
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Old 05-03-2017, 12:29 PM   #78
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based card game... What do you think of it?

Good players embrace variance. It's what makes poker great. Trying to reduce it is a fool's paradise.
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Old 05-03-2017, 03:11 PM   #79
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based card game... What do you think of it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncelanas View Post
Wrong.



Literally every player here, some of them winning professional poker players (hi, like me) have absolutely no interest in your game for a variety of reasons.

I think it will very clearly be less skill-based than standard NLHE, actually, because a whole class of hands (hands with a nil card) are unplayable and so many decisions will be made automatically. You will be able to play a very small fraction of hands in nil poker games, and they will be extremely tight, simple, and boring.

Almost nobody remotely good at this game cares at all about "equity once allin," it's not nearly the most important factor re skill in poker.
This is the last time I will answer to your posts,but not because I want to convince you something (I am not here to argue with anybody), but because there are a lot of open-minded people who read this thread and who maybe do not know what to think of nil poker (nil poker is more skill-based than poker(52-card deck); i stated why very good), because they see so many unlogical posts (posted by some people) in this thread. I really do not mind having open-minded conversation. But it is not open-minded conversation when someone tries to make something look bad in the way you do it. I am not here to teach anybody maths. I know that I would never in my life say anything that will make something else look very bad, if I would not be 100 percent sure of what I am saying. I am sure most people agree with me.

So, where were you wrong at your post (this actually puts all your post to question): Nil poker is the most skill-based poker variant ever created. To make it very simple to you: play HU(one on one) poker with only these cards: kings,queens and jacks (all together you have 12 cards; less than at poker(52-card deck) and less than at nil poker(65-card deck)). There is basically allmost no skills involved if played like this… So you probably see my point.. I wish you good luck.

Last edited by blackspoker; 05-03-2017 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 05-03-2017, 03:14 PM   #80
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based card game... What do you think of it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Didace View Post
Good players embrace variance. It's what makes poker great. Trying to reduce it is a fool's paradise.
Good players will make more money playing nil poker vs poker(52-card deck). Nothing is more important for winning players than making money. So therefore, it is obvious every good player will want to play nil poker instead of poker(52-card deck).
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Old 05-03-2017, 03:51 PM   #81
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based card game... What do you think of it?

Honestly, it's like watching the Dragons Den when some guy has gone in looking for funding for the "BEST POOPER SCOPPER IN TEH WORLDS"..

OP needs to remove head from ass
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Old 05-03-2017, 03:59 PM   #82
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based card game... What do you think of it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackspoker View Post
So, where were you wrong at your post (this actually puts all your post to question): Nil poker is the most skill-based poker variant ever created. To make it very simple to you: play HU(one on one) poker with only these cards: kings,queens and jacks (all together you have 12 cards; less than at poker(52-card deck) and less than at nil poker(65-card deck)). There is basically allmost no skills involved if played like this… So you probably see my point.. I wish you good luck.
Ok so let's continue that; you say that more cards equals more skill. Why not add a thousand of your "nil cards", you must believe that is more skillful than nil poker?

By adding blanks you dilute the value of many hands which basically creates bigger edge gaps. This also means lots of hands become unplayable and it involves more folding. By adding blanks you in fact make it closer to a KQJ-game (we call it AKQ game by the way). Blanks are not extra cards, they have no value so adding them does not automatically create more complexity.

Your arguments are honestly terrible and are not supported by enough evidence. You can't come here and claim you have "the most skillful poker game" without some convincing reasons. If you make the claim then you need to provide the proof, that's how it works, not the other way around. Now you're probably trying to make a dollar here so you won't care about what I'm saying but I want to inform other readers that might fall for your rubbish. Also it does not matter what you "believe" is true or what will happen, you are claiming this is the most skillful game and people are going to want to play it. For neither statements is evidence provided and in fact for the latter statement replies are suggesting that people are not going to want to play this.

You asked what people think of this, you got answers. You dismiss them and continue with giving rubbish arguments and assumptions. Maybe you should post this in BBV http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/54...rags-variance/ for better replies.
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Old 05-03-2017, 04:30 PM   #83
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based card game... What do you think of it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvis View Post
Maybe you should post this in BBV http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/54...rags-variance/ for better replies.
Yes, I agree the people over in BBV are much more open minded and willing to have high level and engaging discussions. This did seem out of place in the beginners questions forum anyways.

BBV:

Brag: You invented a new game!

Beat: The sharks will beat up the fishes at nil poker

Variance: Non existent thanks to nil cards

Fits all three categories if you ask me.
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Old 05-03-2017, 04:38 PM   #84
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based card game... What do you think of it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackspoker View Post
Good players will make more money playing nil poker vs poker(52-card deck). Nothing is more important for winning players than making money. So therefore, it is obvious every good player will want to play nil poker instead of poker(52-card deck).
What would a pro rather have? A fish donating $100 twenty nights or donating $500 one night realizing he does not stand a chance and quit?
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Old 05-03-2017, 04:39 PM   #85
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based card game... What do you think of it?

This is beginning to resemble the great 'Poker is rigged' thread.

Unsupported assertions answered by logical arguments and questions >
answered by unsupported assertions >
and round and round it goes
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Old 05-03-2017, 06:02 PM   #86
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based card game... What do you think of it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackspoker View Post
Good players will make more money playing nil poker vs poker(52-card deck). Nothing is more important for winning players than making money. So therefore, it is obvious every good player will want to play nil poker instead of poker(52-card deck).
Submitted without proof.
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Old 05-03-2017, 06:29 PM   #87
blackspoker
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based card game... What do you think of it?

I really thought that this forum is more about constructive opinions than it is. Some people here talk bad about something new for no reason, just trying to discredit something that was made for people (for the people that do not like big variance in poker and for the people who actually want to know who has the best poker skills in the world). I would never do something like this. I really thought that this is more serious forum, but I guess I was wrong. I really do not feel like participating in forum where some people give unlogical arguments again and again(or are making fun of nil poker) and then they expect me to write them back. I really do not have time for that, as I have more important things to do. As I said before, I really do not care what you are saying about nil poker, as far as I am concerned you can just keep talking bad on, but I will not participate in that kind of discussion.This is my last post here.

I am really thankful for all the constructive posts that I have got here. But I guess this forum is more about fun and less about real poker statistics, theories and so on (with some bright exceptions for which´s opinions I am really thankful).

Also, nil poker is more skill-based than poker (52-card deck).As I stated this very good, you can feel free to disapprove my statement. I have no problem thinking the other way when somebody will explain it. As far as I am concerned, all the people that will read all the posts in this thread and will use common sense will agree with me.

You just lose a forum member that actually want to make a change in poker world and who is actually the only one here that knows exactly what these terms means: copyright, trademark and patent and what is there to be done with those things(but I guess you do not want that kind of people here). I guess it is more important to have people here that make fun of stuff. You do not really expect me to be part of this poker community when all the above happens.

I really do believe people will want to play nil poker(just look at all the tables what people are saying about luck,… while playing poker). Actually I find it very interesting that only people on this site do not want to play nil poker. Everybody else want to play nil poker. So, If you want someday play poker that includes less variance you know how the game is called. As this is my last post here (I am not participating in conversations with people that have one goal: to discredit nil poker), Good luck everyone. See you at tables.
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Old 05-03-2017, 06:52 PM   #88
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based card game... What do you think of it?

Bye troll. Maybe stop by BBV or the riggie thread on your way out?

edit: by the way I tried googling how your threads on other sites went. You got like 3 replies in total or were on sites with not enough views to be found with a search engine. Oh and none of the replies were like "oh i want to play that".

edit2: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/members/482976/

That you OP? That account made the same thread in NVG and is now deleted and account banned. Only knew it existed because google cached it.

You're pathetic.

Last edited by Kelvis; 05-03-2017 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 05-03-2017, 06:58 PM   #89
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based card game... What do you think of it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackspoker View Post
I really thought that this forum is more about constructive opinions than it is. Some people here talk bad about something new for no reason, just trying to discredit something that was made for people (for the people that do not like big variance in poker and for the people who actually want to know who has the best poker skills in the world). I would never do something like this. I really thought that this is more serious forum, but I guess I was wrong. I really do not feel like participating in forum where some people give unlogical arguments again and again(or are making fun of nil poker) and then they expect me to write them back. I really do not have time for that, as I have more important things to do. As I said before, I really do not care what you are saying about nil poker, as far as I am concerned you can just keep talking bad on, but I will not participate in that kind of discussion.This is my last post here.

I am really thankful for all the constructive posts that I have got here. But I guess this forum is more about fun and less about real poker statistics, theories and so on (with some bright exceptions for which´s opinions I am really thankful).

Also, nil poker is more skill-based than poker (52-card deck).As I stated this very good, you can feel free to disapprove my statement. I have no problem thinking the other way when somebody will explain it. As far as I am concerned, all the people that will read all the posts in this thread and will use common sense will agree with me.

You just lose a forum member that actually want to make a change in poker world and who is actually the only one here that knows exactly what these terms means: copyright, trademark and patent and what is there to be done with those things(but I guess you do not want that kind of people here). I guess it is more important to have people here that make fun of stuff. You do not really expect me to be part of this poker community when all the above happens.

I really do believe people will want to play nil poker(just look at all the tables what people are saying about luck,… while playing poker). Actually I find it very interesting that only people on this site do not want to play nil poker. Everybody else want to play nil poker. So, If you want someday play poker that includes less variance you know how the game is called. As this is my last post here (I am not participating in conversations with people that have one goal: to discredit nil poker), Good luck everyone. See you at tables.
k
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Old 05-04-2017, 02:31 AM   #90
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based card game... What do you think of it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackspoker View Post
Also, nil poker is more skill-based than poker (52-card deck).As I stated this very good, you can feel free to disapprove my statement.
You can feel free to prove that statement, as you keep saying it but giving no sensible reasons to say why.
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Old 05-04-2017, 07:47 AM   #91
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based card game... What do you think of it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackspoker View Post
Good players will make more money playing nil poker vs poker(52-card deck). Nothing is more important for winning players than making money. So therefore, it is obvious every good player will want to play nil poker instead of poker(52-card deck).
Why would anyone want to play a game that attracts good players?
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Old 05-04-2017, 08:28 AM   #92
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based card game... What do you think of it?

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You can feel free to prove that statement, as you keep saying it but giving no sensible reasons to say why.
Not only does he keep saying it, but he seems to be under the belief that "poker" is synonymous with NLHE, which is one of the highest variance forms of poker. There are multiple poker games that have much less variance and much higher skill edges than NLHE, already. And they use a standard deck.
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:21 AM   #93
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based card game... What do you think of it?

Hello people. Because there were couple of really nice people here, who helped me with a lot of things at nil poker I feel like I have to inform you(them) about some change that has beed made with nil poker rules. I think this is fair of me to do.

In the future, I am not planning to answer posters with bad intentions, trolling posters and posters who do not understand maths (I suggest you ask the smartest people here what I am talking about),...So, those people are losing their time by writing to this thread as far as I am concerned. The only reason I am posting here is because I believe nice people from here have the right to know what is happening with nil poker (some people here were nice enough to gave me good advices in the past). Anyway, thank you again nice posters.
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:32 AM   #94
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based card game... What do you think of it?

Slight change of the Nil Poker rules has been made(VIDEO):


New Nil Poker combination: Nil Poker - Four (4) or more nil cards.

Nil Poker Hand Ranking:
… < Flush < Nil Poker < Full House < …

This change makes Nil Poker even better, more fun to play,.. Now I believe Nil Poker is the most perfect game on the planet (correlation between luck vs skills) and it is the most skill-based poker variant ever. Also, I am little closer to release some kind of on-line app, where people will be able to try Nil Poker.

Please feel free to share your opinions on Nil Poker.
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:48 AM   #95
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based card game... What do you think of it?

Nil people are going to want to play this.
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Old 06-19-2017, 04:29 AM   #96
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based card game... What do you think of it?

I like the concept behind Nil Poker, but my concern would be that the game devoles into a game based almost entirely around pre-flop EV stats.

with those extra cards in the deck, the statistical likelyhood of drawing a straight/flush/full house or great, is significantly reduced, thus the game would devolve into a battle over who has the highest value pair/two pair/ trips - set.

set mining with anything under jacks would become all but suicidal, if you dont flop your set your effectively screwed.

what i would expect to see if im reading this correctly, is super tight pre-flop range limited to...

big pairs (ace to 10)
AK/AQ/AJ/A10 (maybe A9 suited)
mid-low pairs (but only if you can limp onto the flop)

anything else should be considered a trash hand and thrown away, the only exception being stealing the blinds. what this Nil poker seems to curb is a trash hand hitting trips,or drawing a straight or flush. the problem with that is it boils the entire game down to the strength of your starting hand and mostly big pairs AA/KK/QQ.

it's basically a game where whoever has the highest pair automatically wins, you dont have to worry about drawing hands, as they are now waaaay harder to hit than in regular poker, if im playing full ring nil poker it seem like it would just turn into a game of "who's got the ace/king/queen, if the flop comes and any of those cards are present, and i miss the board, i might as well fold.....unless im holding a pair higher than anything on the board!

what you need is a game that incentivises players to stay in the hand, but only if they had a good starting hand (high suited connectors/big pairs)....a game that still allows for dynamic play on later streets and potencial hand strength reversals, but its next to impossible to win a hand by going all-in pre-flop with a useless trash hand

basically you want to negate the chances of a player winning if he goes full donkey on a J3 offsuit pre-flop against a player with a good starting hand, whilst at the same time allowing for the game to be meaningfull on all streets, and not totally decided pre-flop/flop but making the turn/river meaningfull and worth paying a price to see.

Last edited by Flying_Cloud; 06-19-2017 at 04:39 AM.
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Old 06-19-2017, 07:56 AM   #97
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based card game... What do you think of it?

but op doesn't want those damn donks to crack his aces every time
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:36 AM   #98
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based card game... What do you think of it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackspoker View Post
New Nil Poker combination: Nil Poker - Four (4) or more nil cards.

Nil Poker Hand Ranking:
… < Flush < Nil Poker < Full House < …
4 Nils is easier to make than a Flush, about 2.5 times as frequent. I haven't calculated the probability of a straight with this deck, but I'm guessing 4 nils is also easier.

Also, "Nil Poker" is a bad name for the hand imo. Call it something like "Quad Nils", or maybe a "Nilly".

I admit this is a slight improvement on the game, because now when Villain tables trips, you can be like, "I have two pair...Nils and Nils biaatch!" You hardly ever get to do that with regular quads.


Edit: come to think of it, ranking this hand above Flush might make the game less nitty, which would make it suck less. Now I legit wonder if this would be an interesting game (whereas before, like everyone else, I thought this was the dumbest variant ever).

Last edited by heehaww; 06-19-2017 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 06-19-2017, 09:46 AM   #99
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based card game... What do you think of it?

I presume that with 4 Nils, your kicker plays?

Oh and there is already a deck people can buy to play this game (as well as other games).
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Old 06-20-2017, 11:03 AM   #100
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based card game... What do you think of it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying_Cloud View Post
I like the concept behind Nil Poker, but my concern would be that the game devoles into a game based almost entirely around pre-flop EV stats.

with those extra cards in the deck, the statistical likelyhood of drawing a straight/flush/full house or great, is significantly reduced, thus the game would devolve into a battle over who has the highest value pair/two pair/ trips - set.

set mining with anything under jacks would become all but suicidal, if you dont flop your set your effectively screwed.

what i would expect to see if im reading this correctly, is super tight pre-flop range limited to...

big pairs (ace to 10)
AK/AQ/AJ/A10 (maybe A9 suited)
mid-low pairs (but only if you can limp onto the flop)

anything else should be considered a trash hand and thrown away, the only exception being stealing the blinds. what this Nil poker seems to curb is a trash hand hitting trips,or drawing a straight or flush. the problem with that is it boils the entire game down to the strength of your starting hand and mostly big pairs AA/KK/QQ.

it's basically a game where whoever has the highest pair automatically wins, you dont have to worry about drawing hands, as they are now waaaay harder to hit than in regular poker, if im playing full ring nil poker it seem like it would just turn into a game of "who's got the ace/king/queen, if the flop comes and any of those cards are present, and i miss the board, i might as well fold.....unless im holding a pair higher than anything on the board!

what you need is a game that incentivises players to stay in the hand, but only if they had a good starting hand (high suited connectors/big pairs)....a game that still allows for dynamic play on later streets and potencial hand strength reversals, but its next to impossible to win a hand by going all-in pre-flop with a useless trash hand

basically you want to negate the chances of a player winning if he goes full donkey on a J3 offsuit pre-flop against a player with a good starting hand, whilst at the same time allowing for the game to be meaningfull on all streets, and not totally decided pre-flop/flop but making the turn/river meaningfull and worth paying a price to see.
Hello Flying_Cloud. First I would like to thank you for taking your time and writing very good comment.

You have some good points. I would just like to add that hole cards: like for example ace and nil would not be bad too(in most situations). Hole cards would be more important(slightly more important, but in correlation with person´s poker skills).

One smart poster on this site said (he actually explained it a lot better than I will now) that it is natural solution of any game, that after time, every game evolves in the same way. You see the same amount of flops, turns,… in any poker variant (for example any holdem variant); Royal Hold´em, Six Plus Holdem,... People will probably adapt, so they will start calling more with middle pairs, plus nil poker(combination) possibility…and so on.

The GTO you mentioned is probably only going to work(be profitable) against very bad poker players (but in today´s world very bad players are very rare). As for, lets say person A plays in the way you mentioned and person B plays a bit more aggressive (also a bit more loose in right spots). Persons A ranges are very easy to spot if playing like this. Person A would also not hit as much (as in poker(52-card deck); so a lot of »automatic« folds or checks for person A, which makes his ranges even more predictable), so person B can for example bluff him in a lot of spots. So, I believe person B has a big advantage vs person A. I think adding nil poker(combination) will make a game more crazy (fun), especially because nil poker(combination) is ranked between flush and fullhouse (but actually it is a lot easier to get nil poker (4 or more nil cards) than a flush).

Thank you for taking your time Flying_Cloud, again. It really means a lot to me.

Next couple of sentences are not answer to your post, but I will wrote it here because they go well with the text that I wrote here.

I believe this is a game with huge potential. The game is very easy to understand, so everybody understand rules, but it is a bit harder to play good nil poker(vs poker – 52-card deck; nil poker is a bit more advanced).

Because of reasons above it is obvious all poker coaches will love it too (profits for them goes to the moon): basically teaching people how to: more hero calling and bluffing (one of the coolest things to do in poker),... People who understand poker (52-card game) will have really big advantage in nil poker.

I actually believe everybody will like nil poker(poker coaches, casinos, forums, winning players, losing players,..), but I will wrote a bit more about this(and why) some other time.

I believe this:
Nil Poker – The Future of Poker. Golden age of poker will be back.

Last edited by blackspoker; 06-20-2017 at 11:17 AM.
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