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03-26-2008 , 12:35 PM
Anyway, here is my question. Profitability in NL cash is exponential or becomes multiplied as you move up. Realistically, at .50/1 & 1/2 how much should you want to win a day (what's acceptable/realistic)?
03-26-2008 , 12:48 PM
Before I get to my question, I just wanted to thank you for taking time to do this. I think it's cool that someone in your situation is willing to give something back. Anyway, my question is about multi-tabling. You said that you found that 24-tabling the $25NL was how you made about $50/hr. So my question is this (my apologies in advance if it's a stupid question), when you are playing that many tables, do you just play your cards? I mean, you can't be studying your opponents styles when you're up against that many of them at once, right? Do you find that maybe it's better to multi-table because you focus mostly on your own cards vs. getting caught up in outplaying opponents & fighting the boredome of being card dead at times? Thanks again for your help.
03-26-2008 , 01:45 PM
thanks so much for your helpl. the questions i would've had have been answered thanks to the other posters.

just curious, how many tables do you play at 400NL?
03-26-2008 , 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCGRider
squeeze it unless utg+2 has an uber tight range in which case a call is ok, but if utg+2 is even raising all pocket pairs i like a squeeze.

I dont like Axs that much in general, i find they dont do great for me. However i will still squeeze or fold them.

Really calling is just terrible if its not set mining.
do you consider this true for full ring? do you consider this true if everyone has over 200 bb's? do you consider this true if the raiser is an extremely lag player?

with the short stax and loose players in these 50nl games...if/when your squeeze gets called are you pretty much firing in half your stack on 90% of flops?

if you decide you cant squeeze w/ a hand like K9ss are you losing value by folding and not getting to play a hand in position against inferior players?
03-26-2008 , 04:33 PM
i'm currently grinding .5/.10 nl on stars and i'm playing break even at best. i'm having trouble finding "leaks" in my game as I feel like I'm running good stats (15/12/5 about). i feel like maybe i just take marginal hands too far.... anyways, any general advice for analyzing my game so I can improve? I post hands, but I find that rarely addresses the CONCEPTUAL piece i'm missing. posting hands just helps me better understand what i need to do, not WHY i need to do it.
03-26-2008 , 06:32 PM
Just a noobish type question but want this clarified just in case im doing it wrong. Just say we are on the river and villain bets $10 into $100 do we add in the $10 to the pot size so we are calling $10 to win $110 so we're getting 11-1 instead of 10-1? Same question with Equity calculation do we include villains bet in the size of the pot?
03-26-2008 , 07:16 PM
did you ever hit a wall when moving up, if so, what did you do?????

I'm playing NL25 FR, And I'm not even breaking even, and my confidense has gone down quite a bit.......
03-26-2008 , 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandHack1
Anyway, here is my question. Profitability in NL cash is exponential or becomes multiplied as you move up. Realistically, at .50/1 & 1/2 how much should you want to win a day (what's acceptable/realistic)?
This isnt really an answerable question.

Whats your winrate? What game (FR, Six Max, Hu)? How many hands do you play? Do you have a high variance style?

Really there is no way i can answer your question for you.
03-26-2008 , 08:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigirwin
Before I get to my question, I just wanted to thank you for taking time to do this. I think it's cool that someone in your situation is willing to give something back. Anyway, my question is about multi-tabling. You said that you found that 24-tabling the $25NL was how you made about $50/hr. So my question is this (my apologies in advance if it's a stupid question), when you are playing that many tables, do you just play your cards? I mean, you can't be studying your opponents styles when you're up against that many of them at once, right? Do you find that maybe it's better to multi-table because you focus mostly on your own cards vs. getting caught up in outplaying opponents & fighting the boredome of being card dead at times? Thanks again for your help.
Well i usually run fairly laggy at like 17/15 when 24 tabling nl 25, because the players are just so bad i can exploit them with a wide range of holdings. Yes i "play my cards" but its not like 24 tabling its a time constraint and i cant play good poker from it. I am fairly quick with the mouse and can think about things very quicly.
03-26-2008 , 08:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bone165
thanks so much for your helpl. the questions i would've had have been answered thanks to the other posters.

just curious, how many tables do you play at 400NL?
This is one of those things where it depends. If i am playing Full Ring i will probably play about 24, if i am playing six max usually 4-6 so i can really exploit my opponents. This is the optimal way to go for me, because at fr you can only play so many hands but you can get laggier at six max and really beatbad players.
03-26-2008 , 08:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by limon
do you consider this true for full ring? do you consider this true if everyone has over 200 bb's? do you consider this true if the raiser is an extremely lag player?

with the short stax and loose players in these 50nl games...if/when your squeeze gets called are you pretty much firing in half your stack on 90% of flops?

if you decide you cant squeeze w/ a hand like K9ss are you losing value by folding and not getting to play a hand in position against inferior players?
It pretty much goes for everything I THINK. I dont paly very much deep so its difficult for me to be accurate there but in that scenario i think hand deception becomes much more important, so probably still yes. Its also good vs a lag player cause he probably doesnt have **** to begin with.

No im not, it isnt a sin to c/f a squeezed por. But just think about your opponents range on flops. If they are really loose then ace high flops will still be scary, if they are not then probably less so. Use your head.

No you want the initiative when you play a hand, and a hand like K9ss gets beaten up on by better hands a lot without iniatitive (And you are correct for not 3 betting it).
03-26-2008 , 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wackybrak
i'm currently grinding .5/.10 nl on stars and i'm playing break even at best. i'm having trouble finding "leaks" in my game as I feel like I'm running good stats (15/12/5 about). i feel like maybe i just take marginal hands too far.... anyways, any general advice for analyzing my game so I can improve? I post hands, but I find that rarely addresses the CONCEPTUAL piece i'm missing. posting hands just helps me better understand what i need to do, not WHY i need to do it.
If you think you have leaks that arent specific hand related then post your stats... but that said your sure to have problem hands that posting would help. Really without your information/stats/hands i cant tell you what you are doing wrong but if you are playing 15/12/5 then that is a good start.
03-26-2008 , 08:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATM
Just a noobish type question but want this clarified just in case im doing it wrong. Just say we are on the river and villain bets $10 into $100 do we add in the $10 to the pot size so we are calling $10 to win $110 so we're getting 11-1 instead of 10-1? Same question with Equity calculation do we include villains bet in the size of the pot?
Yes you do (makes sense if you think about it)
03-26-2008 , 08:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Melchor
did you ever hit a wall when moving up, if so, what did you do?????

I'm playing NL25 FR, And I'm not even breaking even, and my confidense has gone down quite a bit.......
I had a hard time getting from 25----> to 50 so i tried to jump it to 100 and it worked lol, but that probably isnt the best advice for you.

Honestly go to the forum, post your stats, post hands, get help. Dont just wait for people to help you need to get active with your game and try to really learn what you are messing up on.
03-26-2008 , 08:56 PM
thanx for the help you are giving all of us, thats inspiration man!! I don't plan to be a professional, but when i get to talk to one, it feels pretty good.

My question is about 1c/2c game, i am currently playing 6max 2NL, of course i am winning, but at 1$ / Hr playing 3 tables, is hardly enough money.

just curious, when you were starting out, how long did it take you to move up from 1c/2c NL games? currently my BR is a $150. should I be playing at 2c/5c NL games instead of 1/2? (what is the good bankroll management for NL cash games? I go by 100BB buy-in, * 20 buy-ins, therefore 2000BB as your Bankroll)

My current stats for 6max 2NL is 28/16/3.77 feel free to comment on it.
03-27-2008 , 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCGRider
It pretty much goes for everything I THINK. I dont paly very much deep so its difficult for me to be accurate there but in that scenario i think hand deception becomes much more important, so probably still yes. Its also good vs a lag player cause he probably doesnt have **** to begin with.

No im not, it isnt a sin to c/f a squeezed por. But just think about your opponents range on flops. If they are really loose then ace high flops will still be scary, if they are not then probably less so. Use your head.

No you want the initiative when you play a hand, and a hand like K9ss gets beaten up on by better hands a lot without iniatitive (And you are correct for not 3 betting it).
so the concept here is basically that the opener has such a wide range that his raise is just a default play and means little so now your re-raise is basically the first raise. but if the bring in was sufficiently readable that you could assign a small range to his bring in then you would be better off just calling and trying to play perfectly against that range?

in this case i dont see why your cards would even matter that much. if the idea behind re-raising is that the opener was light and you are going to be able to take down most flops w/ a c-bet. especially if they come dry A or K high and when you do hit a hand it will be very disguised.

this is a defualt play in the big, deep live games i play but it seems to me when you are short stacked this paly is just spew becuase the original raiser cant call for "implied odds" and is going to be moving you in or planning to cr you allin on the flop so often.
03-27-2008 , 02:20 PM
Hey WCGRider,
I'm a real newbie to poker.
I actually just learned the rulles for my first poker game about 2 weeks ago.
It was Texas hold'em poker and I've learned it from a site called
www.learnpoker21.com
The only problem is, that site only teaches Texas Hold'em poker and I would really like to learn a few other poker games.
Do you know a good site to learn other poker games, ithout drawning in too much information.

Thanks for the help...
Cheers,
Guy
03-27-2008 , 06:18 PM
Hats off to you WGCRider for taking the time to offer the benefit of your experience.

My question is about how to go about analysing hands in my hand history.

When I'm playing, I'll know after a certain hand that for whatever reason it's one I'm going to want to take go over and take a look at later. But I haven't really been too good at doing that so far. Those hands that stood out at the time are now buried in my hand history. And so now, after thousands of hands I'm wondering where to start looking for leaks.

Should I just pull out a random sample? Or should I focus on particular things like my biggest losing hands, hands when I got busted, certain cards or whatever?

Any advice on a good method for going through my hand history and making sense of it all would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
03-27-2008 , 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedayidie
thanx for the help you are giving all of us, thats inspiration man!! I don't plan to be a professional, but when i get to talk to one, it feels pretty good.

My question is about 1c/2c game, i am currently playing 6max 2NL, of course i am winning, but at 1$ / Hr playing 3 tables, is hardly enough money.

just curious, when you were starting out, how long did it take you to move up from 1c/2c NL games? currently my BR is a $150. should I be playing at 2c/5c NL games instead of 1/2? (what is the good bankroll management for NL cash games? I go by 100BB buy-in, * 20 buy-ins, therefore 2000BB as your Bankroll)

My current stats for 6max 2NL is 28/16/3.77 feel free to comment on it.
You should be using the 20 bi rule up until about nl 100 I think. you are definitely rolled for 2/5, just make sure you sit down with 5$ and not 10$ just because you can.

You need to call less and raise more. Your AF seems solid. Try not to play junk and try to play more in position.
03-27-2008 , 08:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by limon
so the concept here is basically that the opener has such a wide range that his raise is just a default play and means little so now your re-raise is basically the first raise. but if the bring in was sufficiently readable that you could assign a small range to his bring in then you would be better off just calling and trying to play perfectly against that range?

in this case i dont see why your cards would even matter that much. if the idea behind re-raising is that the opener was light and you are going to be able to take down most flops w/ a c-bet. especially if they come dry A or K high and when you do hit a hand it will be very disguised.

this is a defualt play in the big, deep live games i play but it seems to me when you are short stacked this paly is just spew becuase the original raiser cant call for "implied odds" and is going to be moving you in or planning to cr you allin on the flop so often.
Ok basically you are confusing a couple concepts that i want to make clear.

1) If you 3 bet people a ****ton they WILL fight back at you, so you need to pick spots.

2) Hands Like KJ/QJ/AT/etc play TERRIBLE in 3 bet pots because if you flop either of your cards you could be dominated. When you 3 bet 89ss you will never hit a flop decent that your opponent got a good chunk of (or very rarely anyway.) That is the power of sc.

I dont know what a bring in is, but their initial raise is going to be whatever % of the hands they raise is.
03-27-2008 , 08:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by guy_ronl
Hey WCGRider,
I'm a real newbie to poker.
I actually just learned the rulles for my first poker game about 2 weeks ago.
It was Texas hold'em poker and I've learned it from a site called
www.learnpoker21.com
The only problem is, that site only teaches Texas Hold'em poker and I would really like to learn a few other poker games.
Do you know a good site to learn other poker games, ithout drawning in too much information.

Thanks for the help...
Cheers,
Guy
I heard about this one site, i think it was some mathematical equation. Word on the street is they have lots of poker game info on it. I just wish i could remember its name.
03-27-2008 , 08:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rongwrong
Hats off to you WGCRider for taking the time to offer the benefit of your experience.

My question is about how to go about analysing hands in my hand history.

When I'm playing, I'll know after a certain hand that for whatever reason it's one I'm going to want to take go over and take a look at later. But I haven't really been too good at doing that so far. Those hands that stood out at the time are now buried in my hand history. And so now, after thousands of hands I'm wondering where to start looking for leaks.

Should I just pull out a random sample? Or should I focus on particular things like my biggest losing hands, hands when I got busted, certain cards or whatever?

Any advice on a good method for going through my hand history and making sense of it all would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
There was a great thread in SSNL by someone on analyzing your pokertracker stats. Go search for that.

Anyway what i try to look at besides biggest losing (or winning pots mind you) is sorting the group to have only say Suited Connectors. See How you are doing with those, then change it to pairs. Rinse and repeat. Check specific hands when you lost a bunch of money that you probably shouldnt have.

~Doug
03-27-2008 , 11:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCGRider
Ok basically you are confusing a couple concepts that i want to make clear.

1) If you 3 bet people a ****ton they WILL fight back at you, so you need to pick spots.

2) Hands Like KJ/QJ/AT/etc play TERRIBLE in 3 bet pots because if you flop either of your cards you could be dominated. When you 3 bet 89ss you will never hit a flop decent that your opponent got a good chunk of (or very rarely anyway.) That is the power of sc.

I dont know what a bring in is, but their initial raise is going to be whatever % of the hands they raise is.
well, they play terrible against a standard EP opener but against a lite opener in late position, the spot your looking for, AT is dominating and not dominated so there isnt a one size fits all rule i would guess.

when you 3 bet a lite opener i would guess your range is something like, aj+, kq, 99+ and 67ss-jqss? w/ this range wouldnt the late opener always be right just to move you in if he has 100bb or less?
03-28-2008 , 01:12 AM
Hey thanks for taking a turn in the well.

My question is, why am I better at .02/.05 than I am at .01/.02? Over 7,134 hands (I know it's a small sample) I'm up overall, but not by much. Basically breaking even at this point. My style is pretty similar at both limits:

At 5NL, I'm 22/7.5/2.5. (5172 hands)
At 10NL I'm 18/6/1.5. (1962 hands)

Here's the thing: at .01/.02 my winrate is a dismal -22.22bb/100, and at .02/.05, it's +29.61bb/100.

These seem like pretty straightforward TAG stats... I wouldn't think the 4% VPIP difference should account for such a difference. These are full ring games.

I'm up overall, but not by much. Basically breaking even at this point.

So... wtf? Any ideas?

Last edited by Merum; 03-28-2008 at 01:17 AM.
03-29-2008 , 12:07 AM
I don't know if you can help me with the info I am providing but here goes. I am new to PokerTracker, have been playing NL for a few months, and play mostly SNG at the $1-5 levels. My numbers are 33.2/14.29/1.31 for 2,855 hands. Besides needing to be more aggressive, what more can you tell me about what I need to be doing better? Also, what other stats should I be focusing on?

Thanks so much. This is a great thread!!

      
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