Hi, im just starting play live cash games and trying to build up a bankroll on poker rooms around where i live, and on the games i play (low stakes 1/1 or 1/2) , people often buy in for 20 to 30 bb deep (7 of 9 players do),after some hours the game is deeper, but often full, so i want to know how much the dynamic should change for me.( most people limp, and those who raise make it from 3x to 6x bb)
And i have some question for the situation:
Should i buy also the same amount because is the effective stack?
Should i play a tight agresive style ( broadways, 99+) for value , and limp back when the situation is good SC and small PP?
You think there is merit on open hands such Axs and A9o+, and go for value most of the time?, since is more shortstacked game
How agresive i am depends of the bankroll?
How you guys would aproach to such games
I would be really thankful to any answers

Are you asking if you should shortstack or what you should do when other people are shortstacking? Also what's your poker experience and what's the rake in these games?

If 7 of 9 people buy in for max 30BBs, I wouldn't say they shortstack but that said game just plays very short in the beginning.

If everybody has a small stack it doesn't really matter what you buy in for because that doesn't affect the effective stack size.

If people make it 3-6x preflop with stack sizes between 20-30BB, the money usually goes in on the flop or on the turn which effectively removes at least one round of betting. It also means that you can shove a lot of hands profitably against an open raiser and at least one cold caller.

If the standard way of opening a pot is limping and nobody raises preflop, the game actually doesn't play too different from a 100BB game with 4BB open raises and lots of callers.

You can influence how fast the game gets deeper stacked by playing an aggressive style that forces shorter stacks to call all-in a lot which either doubles them up or makes them rebuy.

Well the rake is 5%, actually was asking how to aproach to the game in terms of agression, meaning how profitable is to open Axs or A9o+ something like this, raise shove W/ PP or so, not a complete guide, but some framework

Hi, thanks for answering ,I think you are right the correct term should be small stacks or so

I get the part of 100bb W/ 4bb open but there you can still reraise or just call proyective hands or set mining, but i think when the stack is this small that is not profitable anymore, when you say shoving a lot of hands when someone open, it would be like PP(prob 55+), big broadways? i think my question is going to this path, meaning how to select the correct range of hands to play aggressively in these games, as you say forcing the action and creating deeper stacks

There's no difference between setmining for 1BB with 25BB effective stacks and setmining for 4BB with 100BB effective stacks. The stack-to-pot ratio is the same.

Rake is an important consideration because it affects the number of hands you can play profitably. That holds especially true with small stacks where it's harder to hit the max rake. If rake is capped at $5 for example, every time the pot goes over $100 no additional rake is taken out. But when stacks are short, the cap hits very infrequently and most hands have the full 5% taken out.

Yes i get it if the pot is limped is the same , but when is opened i was wondering what is nedded to take in consideration as i said some sort of range of hands that can be profitable played in an aggressive way( a side of players styles or so, as a framework that can be widen or tighten depedending the case) , thanks for the feedback

I always buy in full. When I get seated at a full table and maybe two other people have 100BBs and everyone else is wayyy short ... blah.

Going to note that in most live games in the US, the rake is 10%, not 5%.

OP, it is difficult to win in a short stack live game because of the rake and the lack of ability to exploit the mistakes of your villains for large sums. Going all in with TP when you have 20BB is at worst a small mistake. You want to exploit the people going all in with TP when there is 100BB on the line. Your best opportunity to build your bankroll is to save money from outside sources. You aren't going to do it in this game.

The way to play this game is to avoid calling in most cases pf. You're either raising pf or 3betting. You're playing mostly premium hands and working them hard. Other than limping in with pocket pairs after someone else limps, you're going to fold or raise. Yes, it will be boring and lots of people will be making fun of you. But they'll still call with 97o to your 6 BB pfr with AA because they want to crack your aces. Getting your money in pf with the best hands is going to be your edge.

If you do play and the stack sizes move up to more reasonable ranges, you'll change your game to adjust to it. The best thing about this is that most people won't be able to adjust. They'll treat you like you're still playing as tight as you were with 20BB and it will give you a lot of stealing opportunities.

Hi, thaks for answering, i think that i have some idea on how to play 100b deep or so(pretty much Tag), when it comes to 20bb deep , i see the game going with pretty wide ranges, people calling big raises and going on W/ any pair(unless there si obvous someone has something good), then i dont know if i should tight up and play the goods, or loose my range and play more agressively, and i guess with a bigger bank, so your opinion is that is hard to win these games playing a wide range?, pretty much i was wondering since the game is in general plays with a wide range, could i play hands like A9o+, 77+ for value ?(or is it too loose?), btw im not from the US so the rake here mostly is 5%

In general I'd say buy in for whatever amount you feel comfortable. There's nothing wrong with shortstacking if you adjust your strategy for it. If you like to play a loose aggressive style though I don't recommend it. I first started out shortstacking and sometimes still do it when I'm moving up stakes.

Couple things to keep in mind if you shortstack. You need to play tighter pre cause you're not going to have a lot of implied odds. So big pairs, broadway cards, and if you think it won't be raised pre small pairs are ok. Suited connectors and Axs hands will just bleed money and should be folded (actually most players vastly overvalue these hands even in normal games). They don't hit very often and you're putting in a significant proportion of your money even in a limped pot.

Buying in short will reduce your swings but not proportionally. For instance you'll have smaller swings buying into a 1/2 with $100 than you would with $200 but it's not going to be half as much because there's more times you'll be all in with $100 than $200.

Thanks about postflop has you have experience on shortstacking, how agresive should i be postflop? With equity of course

That really depends on the players you're up against. You really have to study each player individually. At 1/2 some players will basically always bet when they have a strong hand, check when they don't, and never bluff. Other players will call any bet even with bottom pair or gutshot straight draws.

Basically you want to bluff the first type of player when they check to you and avoid bluffing the second type of player. I would say there are probably more players that call too much with draws at the lowest limits though.

Also having a shorter stack may make more likely that someone will call you. This is part of the reason some people are against short stacking, but in general I don't think this is a bad thing if you play solid hands then just bet your hand when you hit.

One other thing I can tell you the rake is a huge factor at 1/2 in my area. When I started it was 10% up to 5 dollars plus a promo dollar at $20. If the rake is similar in your area 1/1 may be a very hard or impossible game to beat long term (which is why I asked you about the rake). They don't have 1/1 in my area so I can't say for sure.

Welcome to the forum .. Hopefully you can find some good information here. Remember you can always search the site for similar threads as your thread is very 'common' and some posters wont keep posting the same answers when they can be found in a search.

You have put some effort into your OP and follow ups so you are getting responses from some of the best here IMO. Just remember that every poker table is different and advice that works well for one may not for another.

When playing short stack poker, as stated above in a few spots, you are almost always forced into 'playing cards' due to SPR (Stack to Pot Ratios) considerations. Once that happens you can almost discount the other player and simply look at your holding against the board to make your decisions based how your range of holding compares to the 'average' holding of an opponent.

1) In general, always top off and/or stay close to the biggest stack at the table.
2) Tight table = Play wider, but pay closer attention to certain players ... Wide table (typical) = Play tighter
3) When short stacked/small SPR then the over-bet is your friend. Most players don't 'know' you are betting for value and will either fold or call regardless of the bet size.

Good luck and make sure you re-read these posts here. There is a lot of good stuff that shouldn't be glossed over. Remember in a live game that 'the math' never applies to the same spot the same way, even against the same player. GL

in smaller pots you have to be very cognizant of the rake and hands as you are laying around 5 to 4 in the money on head up pots. that makes many times a situation where both hands should have folded. as they both have neg. ev in the pot.

i like to tighten up vs short stackers.