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Old 06-15-2017, 01:54 PM   #1
Percyeus86
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Question A Hand that had me confused.

Hi Guys.

This hand really had me stumped on what to do. Can you take a look and let me have your thoughts?

********* # 78 **************
PokerStars Zoom Hand #171807813202: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2017/06/15 17:30:14 WET [2017/06/15 12:30:14 ET]
Table 'Baade' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Percyeus86 ($85.94 in chips)
Seat 2: coolaaaax ($187.78 in chips)
Seat 3: 81688168 ($145.66 in chips)
Seat 4: diamondpr0 ($52 in chips)
Seat 5: CPQuinn ($39.24 in chips)
Seat 6: carloshmz ($89.76 in chips)
coolaaaax: posts small blind $0.25
81688168: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Percyeus86 [Ts Td]
diamondpr0: folds
CPQuinn: calls $0.50
carloshmz: raises $2.20 to $2.70
Percyeus86: calls $2.70
coolaaaax: calls $2.45
81688168: calls $2.20
CPQuinn: folds
*** FLOP *** [8s 5s 3d]
coolaaaax: checks
81688168: checks
carloshmz: checks
Percyeus86: bets $6.50
coolaaaax: calls $6.50
81688168: folds
carloshmz: folds
*** TURN *** [8s 5s 3d] [9c]
coolaaaax: checks
Percyeus86: bets $8
coolaaaax: raises $26.05 to $34.05
Percyeus86: folds
Uncalled bet ($26.05) returned to coolaaaax
coolaaaax collected $38.30 from pot
coolaaaax: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $40.30 | Rake $2
Board [8s 5s 3d 9c]
Seat 1: Percyeus86 (button) folded on the Turn
Seat 2: coolaaaax (small blind) collected ($38.30)
Seat 3: 81688168 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: diamondpr0 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: CPQuinn folded before Flop
Seat 6: carloshmz folded on the Flop

My thoughts were that he didn't have JJ, QQ, KK or AA. I would have expected a 3 bet pre flop. The check call on the flop followed by the check raise on the turn really looked a strong line to me and made me think he had a set. I tanked for a long time but ultimately let it go.
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Old 06-15-2017, 02:36 PM   #2
AznblackhawkCo
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Re: A Hand that had me confused.

Easy fold even without stats....there were 3 other villains headed to the flop, if you weren't drawing to 2 outs on the flop you are way behind villain when he shoves your bet in most instances....no stats on villain? Though I'm still folding unless you have specific notes for this exact situation that villain spews, but I still think I'm folding but make sure you give him the stink eye while doing it

You're right on your assumption coolaaax shouldn't have JJ+ here ever but there are so many combos he could have in a 2b pre pot, including nut straight, 2 pairs, sets, etc and only Ax spade that you're ahead of, since you have the Ts you remove JTs and QTS (combo draw) from his range.

Last edited by AznblackhawkCo; 06-15-2017 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 06-16-2017, 12:21 PM   #3
ArtyMcFly
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Re: A Hand that had me confused.

The pre-flop action is very weird. Did the CO really iso-raise to 5.4bb and get called by 3 players, none of whom were the limper?

I think there's a case for checking back the turn. SB's check-call on the flop is pretty worrying when the pot was so big and multiway. He's often going to have 99/88/76s or a hand that can't call again. As played, folding to the check-raise seems mandatory.
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Old 06-16-2017, 02:30 PM   #4
AznblackhawkCo
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Re: A Hand that had me confused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly View Post
The pre-flop action is very weird. Did the CO really iso-raise to 5.4bb and get called by 3 players, none of whom were the limper?

I think there's a case for checking back the turn. SB's check-call on the flop is pretty worrying when the pot was so big and multiway. He's often going to have 99/88/76s or a hand that can't call again. As played, folding to the check-raise seems mandatory.
I definitely approve of the check back IP on turn, with overpairs some boards will lend itself to 2 streets of value, its pretty rare to have the board run out for 3 streets of value. By betting turn when checked to you, you allow villain to do exactly this with strong FE and normal equity. Flop bet is fine, check turn and make you're decision based on what comes on the river.

Without the information of the villain check raise jam turn, there are a lot of bad rivers for you so I understand the bet, but vs 3 other players to the flop your hand has to be that much stronger. With that in mind I'd elect to pot size control turn
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Old 06-16-2017, 02:33 PM   #5
Th4Sh4rk
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Re: A Hand that had me confused.

I 3-bet pf
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Old 06-16-2017, 03:19 PM   #6
crow27
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Re: A Hand that had me confused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Th4Sh4rk View Post
I 3-bet pf
I agree with this. Although with no history, it's hard to say whether it would have mattered. Some will set mine in that spot also, expecting the hand to go 3 way or more anyway.

Also, I would tend check behind on the turn as well. That line just looks so trappy.

On a side note, can I ask why you eliminate JJ from the SB? I've seen this a lot when OOP? against an ISO raise and Call, I'm personally not overly excited with JJ from the SB. Kind of a tweener hand. Bottom of squeeze range and top of call range?
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Old 06-16-2017, 03:37 PM   #7
the_glaive
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Re: A Hand that had me confused.

I think it's easy with the benefit of hindsight to say 3-bet pre, given that there were so many callers, probably calling with some weaker hands; but the opening bet was pretty big. A 3-bet would be okay, but you're left in a sticky position on that board if villain opened with JJ or QQ.

I pretty much agree with Arty and was going to suggest a check on the turn.
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Old 06-17-2017, 03:47 AM   #8
crow27
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Re: A Hand that had me confused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_glaive View Post
I think it's easy with the benefit of hindsight to say 3-bet pre, given that there were so many callers, probably calling with some weaker hands; but the opening bet was pretty big. A 3-bet would be okay, but you're left in a sticky position on that board if villain opened with JJ or QQ.

I pretty much agree with Arty and was going to suggest a check on the turn.
the most valid reason to 3 bet in this spot is that our hand should be ahead of a CO iso range. I would agree that with no stated V history/stats this could be up for debate. I just think TT can be played either way in this spot. I personally would feel more comfortable playing post flop if I 3 bet this preflop if that makes sense.
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