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Getting whooped at 6-max 2NL (acr) Getting whooped at 6-max 2NL (acr)

11-15-2015 , 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhcs2014
I suggest posting some hands you are unsure about. You can't just be running bad if your losing after 100k+ hands.
I can defo happen but as a rule u are right. 100k hands is a semi-reliable sample

Sent from my GT-I8190 using 2+2 Forums
Getting whooped at 6-max 2NL (acr) Quote
11-15-2015 , 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tutejszy
nothing of what you wrote is a reason to shoving rather than non-ai 4betting, it's just awful, you are most likely isolating yourself vs top of villian's range and take away his ability to spazz out with worse

let's say you are opening for 3bb, reasonable 3bet sizing is somewhere between 8-10bb, shoving over that is a huge overbet (and qq might be the exactly worst possible hand to do that)
I think you misread what I meant. I was talking about 4-betting and folding to a 5BAI. You are correct that if villain 3-bets and we just straight ship it we're very lucky if they call with AK, which we're only a small favorite against, and more likely we're facing KK+.

I'm advocating GII when you 4-bet them and they ship vs. 4-bet/fold which is way too nitty. Also, we wouldn't 4BAI with our bluffs, and we need to balance our range by playing our 4-bets for value the same as our 4-bet bluffs.

There are very few instances I can think of where a 4BAI makes sense unless you're facing a 3-bet from someone who is short stacked and a 4-bet would pot commit them anyway.
Getting whooped at 6-max 2NL (acr) Quote
11-15-2015 , 11:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tolis
I can defo happen but as a rule u are right. 100k hands is a semi-reliable sample

Sent from my GT-I8190 using 2+2 Forums
Well, I did start out having absolutely no concept of poker strategy and once I understood to only play good hands and raise with them, I stopped playing play money and I started playing microstakes. Got good enough to consistently crush home games after only a day or two of playing but can't seem to consistently win online after several 3-4 month bouts of reading, watching DC videos and playing religiously.

I just am to the point where I am taking my game more seriously now, looking at hand history and through leakbuster.

I feel like I have a lot of conceptual knowledge but not sure how to apply it, or maybe I am playing too many tables and should just 2 table for a while again and really just think about peoples hands because I feel like it's just something obvious I'm missing because my brain refuses to recognize it or something. Or maybe that's not even it-- I certainly don't feel overwhelmed playing 4 to 6 tables.

I think I'll keep it down to 2 tables until I can show a profit for like 10k hands then see if I can keep that up with 3 or 4 tables, if I can change the way I think or plug a few leaks then I should be able to keep that going for more tables..

Getting whooped at 6-max 2NL (acr) Quote
11-16-2015 , 12:59 AM
PFR VPIP to low. Missing out on a lot of value here.

Fold to 3bet to low. Players aren't 3betting wide at these stakes so there is little reason to be defending wide.

3bet too high depending on your strategy. If you are 3betting 7% for value you'll just be isolating yourself against better hands as people over fold to 3bets. But if it's mixed in with bluffs then it is good.

Steal is too low. You can be instant profiting from opening wide late position and making a small cbet.

Fold to flop cbet a little high. Look for spots where you have backdoor equity/overcards and villain has bet small and you can call in position and bluff later streets.

Cbet to high. Which isn't a bad thing at these stakes but isn't optimal. You are probably cbetting hands that have higher EV when checked.

I don't know how the games play at ACR and these observations were from 2nl zoom on stars which are very easy to beat with a high win rate. I wouldn't put to much trust in leakbuster as well. I looked at the free version in PT4 and I think it's most likely useless.

Last edited by ursafenow; 11-16-2015 at 01:07 AM.
Getting whooped at 6-max 2NL (acr) Quote
11-16-2015 , 01:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursafenow
3bet too high depending on your strategy. If you are 3betting 7% for value you'll just be isolating yourself against better hands as people over fold to 3bets. But if it's mixed in with bluffs then it is good.
Can you be more specific with what you mean here as far as what would constitute the bottom of my value range and what would qualify as a bluffing range?
Getting whooped at 6-max 2NL (acr) Quote
11-16-2015 , 01:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celerity
Can you be more specific with what you mean here as far as what would constitute the bottom of my value range and what would qualify as a bluffing range?
All you need to do is get skype for free coaching is that so hard . I'm not helping you through this inefficient communication.

3betting for value depends on the position and villain. If villain is opening 50% on the BTN you can 3bet lighter for value such as KJ,AT. A bluff would be 3betting ATo against a player who has an UTG open of 10%. Good hands to bluff with are suited wheel aces as they have good equity against strong ranges, can flop the nuts and have an Ace blocker, which results in you bluffing into nut hands less often and get more folds. Using your bottom of your calling range that you deem as not profitable to be flatting are goods hands that candidate for a 3bet bluff.
Getting whooped at 6-max 2NL (acr) Quote
11-16-2015 , 02:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursafenow
All you need to do is get skype for free coaching is that so hard . I'm not helping you through this inefficient communication.
Dude. This is a public forum. I come to the public forum for public discussion.

Personally, I think it's a little weird. Your account is just created a few days ago and you have very few posts, mostly trying to get people on Skype it seems like. I'm not sure why you're so insistent on using Skype. It was also a little odd the way you immediately offered to help via a different platform just some random stranger wants to connect with me. I mean if you want to coach people via Skype maybe that's a topic for another thread?

It's widely known that Skype isn't the most secure application and having a secure computer is pretty important for me as an online poker player. Can you really blame a poker player for being a bit cautious about what information they share with totally random strangers?

I don't mean to offend, your advice seems legitimate. I'm busy with work anyways, I have one of those schedules where I work all day for half the week, then have a bunch of days off.

Anyways, I hope you see my point about the Skype situation. I'm not saying I'm not open to some coaching but I don't see what advantage Skype offers over this communication or private messages and I'm not sure I'm 100% comfortable providing access to any sort of live play while I'm having a total stranger watch me play.

If the forum is such inefficient communication then why the hell are we on the forum at all?

I feel like you haven't really shown me exactly what advantage Skype can offer over forum discussion and it's all just "OMG GET SKYPE NAO" I mean, if I'm being a total dick here I'm sorry but like I said, can you really blame a poker player for responding this way given all these factors?

I probably know a few Nigerian princes who are equally as annoyed that I didn't Skype them.

Most of the time I don't answer phone calls from people I know, lol.

Anyways...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ursafenow
3betting for value depends on the position and villain. If villain is opening 50% on the BTN you can 3bet lighter for value such as KJ,AT. A bluff would be 3betting ATo against a player who has an UTG open of 10%. Good hands to bluff with are suited wheel aces as they have good equity against strong ranges, can flop the nuts and have an Ace blocker, which results in you bluffing into nut hands less often and get more folds. Using your bottom of your calling range that you deem as not profitable to be flatting are goods hands that candidate for a 3bet bluff.
I'm just now getting into learning about more complex topics like range merging / polarized ranges so I don't have a huge amount to say on the subject but I can say that I have been trying to resteal more vs people with a high steal % and 3bet people lighter who have wider opening ranges, and I think that is contributing to my higher 3bet percentage.. and I continue to 3bet them if they keep folding to it.
Getting whooped at 6-max 2NL (acr) Quote
11-16-2015 , 03:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celerity
Dude. This is a public forum. I come to the public forum for public discussion.
Yes and I'm offering "private" services out of kindness as it appeared you genuinely want to improve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celerity
Personally, I think it's a little weird. Your account is just created a few days ago and you have very few posts, mostly trying to get people on Skype it seems like. I'm not sure why you're so insistent on using Skype. It was also a little odd the way you immediately offered to help via a different platform just some random stranger wants to connect with me. I mean if you want to coach people via Skype maybe that's a topic for another thread?
wow...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celerity
It's widely known that Skype isn't the most secure application and having a secure computer is pretty important for me as an online poker player. Can you really blame a poker player for being a bit cautious about what information they share with totally random strangers?
lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celerity
I don't mean to offend, your advice seems legitimate. I'm busy with work anyways, I have one of those schedules where I work all day for half the week, then have a bunch of days off.
A quick 15 minute chat will improve you game faster than a week of off and on thread posting. But what ever...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celerity
Anyways, I hope you see my point about the Skype situation. I'm not saying I'm not open to some coaching but I don't see what advantage Skype offers over this communication or private messages and I'm not sure I'm 100% comfortable providing access to any sort of live play while I'm having a total stranger watch me play.
If you can't see the advantage and I have to convince you of instant messaging over this forum then you should immediately stop playing poker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celerity
If the forum is such inefficient communication then why the hell are we on the forum at all?
Quite a ******ed statement. I don't think any poker coaches coach their clients on a public forum do they?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celerity
I feel like you haven't really shown me exactly what advantage Skype can offer over forum discussion and it's all just "OMG GET SKYPE NAO" I mean, if I'm being a total dick here I'm sorry but like I said, can you really blame a poker player for responding this way given all these factors?

I probably know a few Nigerian princes who are equally as annoyed that I didn't Skype them.

Most of the time I don't answer phone calls from people I know, lol.

Anyways...



I'm just now getting into learning about more complex topics like range merging / polarized ranges so I don't have a huge amount to say on the subject but I can say that I have been trying to resteal more vs people with a high steal % and 3bet people lighter who have wider opening ranges, and I think that is contributing to my higher 3bet percentage.. and I continue to 3bet them if they keep folding to it.
Anyways if you have any hands that you want me to share post them here and I'll get back to you in a couple of days and if you have any questions a further I'll respond a couple of days later when you barely even remember your question. Good luck

Also your preflop game isn't fine if you are playing 16/13 in 6max. I could give you some good opening charts for each position but you'll probably be a bit paranoid about opening some imgur links.
Getting whooped at 6-max 2NL (acr) Quote
11-16-2015 , 04:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursafenow
Yes and I'm offering "private" services out of kindness as it appeared you genuinely want to improve.
Okay, but think about the way you approached it. Totally new username. Randomly wants my Skype name. Yeah. OK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ursafenow
A quick 15 minute chat will improve you game faster than a week of off and on thread posting. But what ever...
You don't seem to have any issues replying to my posts, why not talk about poker instead of trying to convince me that I'm an idiot for not wanting to Skype you?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ursafenow
If you can't see the advantage and I have to convince you of instant messaging over this forum then you should immediately stop playing poker.
No, actually , you should explain the advantage you're offering me so I know exactly how you will be helping me. Maybe tell me what style of coaching you're offering, instead of getting offended when I don't blindly accept a strangers request for my Skype information.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ursafenow
Quite a ******ed statement. I don't think any poker coaches coach their clients on a public forum do they?
The question I keep asking myself is who the hell are you and what credentials do you have?

Why am I the ******* here for not wanting to use Skype?

I hate the program.

You're acting like you've approached me with an amazing offer that I'm an idiot for refusing but in reality you've approached me as a complete stranger wanting my Skype information and have not explained to me how instant messaging on Skype is any better or different than private messaging here or an email.



I mean... you're offering me these amazing "private services"....why not at least attempt to explain what that might entail?


Look man.. I'm done talking about Skype. It's not gonna happen. Let it go.

If you want to talk about poker, lets talk here.


I mean for god's sake it's a forum. Could you imagine if every reply to a beginners question post was "Uhh...can't talk here.....Skype me for super secret info"

Last edited by Celerity; 11-16-2015 at 04:28 AM.
Getting whooped at 6-max 2NL (acr) Quote
11-16-2015 , 04:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celerity
Okay, but think about the way you approached it. Totally new username. Randomly wants my Skype name. Yeah. OK.



You don't seem to have any issues replying to my posts, why not talk about poker instead of trying to convince me that I'm an idiot for not wanting to Skype you?




No, actually , you should explain the advantage you're offering me so I know exactly how you will be helping me. Maybe tell me what style of coaching you're offering, instead of getting offended when I don't blindly accept a strangers request for my Skype information.





The question I keep asking myself is who the hell are you and what credentials do you have?

Why am I the ******* here for not wanting to use Skype?

I hate the program.

You're acting like you've approached me with an amazing offer that I'm an idiot for refusing but in reality you've approached me as a complete stranger wanting my Skype information and have not explained to me how instant messaging on Skype is any better or different than private messaging here or an email.



I mean... you're offering me these amazing "private services"....why not at least attempt to explain what that might entail?


Look man.. I'm done talking about Skype. It's not gonna happen. Let it go.

If you want to talk about poker, lets talk here.
You've been losing for 5 years and you're asking my credentials to be able to able you and explain how I can help you beat 2nl!!!!? The ****... Do you want me to live stream myself slamming my cock into my keyboard while profiting at 2nl? I've just recently went through the process of learning the game and can now crush 2nlz. With the knowledge and formula fresh in my mind, I can easily help a player up in a very short time. But you sound like a stubborn idiot that was born a donk and wouldn't listen to anything I say. Rest in pieces donk, you will never get this offer again.
Getting whooped at 6-max 2NL (acr) Quote
11-16-2015 , 05:02 AM
An averagely intelligent ape could beat 2nl. You don't need "knowledge and formula fresh in your mind"

Edit: if this is a level then OK
Getting whooped at 6-max 2NL (acr) Quote
11-16-2015 , 05:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsporting
An averagely intelligent ape could beat 2nl. You don't need "knowledge and formula fresh in your mind"

Edit: if this is a level then OK
Obviously some people do and he needed to hear it. I'm sorry it has come to this.
Getting whooped at 6-max 2NL (acr) Quote
11-16-2015 , 05:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursafenow
I'm sorry it has come to this.
I'm not...


It saved me the time downloading a crappy insecure Microsoft program that I don't like to use to talk to someone who immediately thinks I'm an idiot for not wanting to kiss their feet and blindly accept their offer...and any inquiry about your amazingly kind hearted coaching is met with "just get skype!"


If your coaching was worth the time you'd be charging for it.


I'd rather lose money making the mistakes and learning the hard way than talking to a self important prick like you on a voice chat program for one second.
Getting whooped at 6-max 2NL (acr) Quote
11-16-2015 , 05:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celerity
I'm not...


It saved me the time downloading a crappy insecure Microsoft program that I don't like to use to talk to someone who immediately thinks I'm an idiot for not wanting to kiss their feet and blindly accept their offer...and any inquiry about your amazingly kind hearted coaching is met with "just get skype!"


If your coaching was worth the time you'd be charging for it.


I'd rather lose money making the mistakes and learning the hard way than talking to a self important prick like you on a voice chat program for one second.
get mad donk, i'll jump up on ur desk like green goblin and **** on it (****)
Getting whooped at 6-max 2NL (acr) Quote
11-16-2015 , 05:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursafenow
get mad donk, i'll jump up on ur desk like green goblin and **** on it (****)
k
Getting whooped at 6-max 2NL (acr) Quote
11-16-2015 , 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursafenow
All you need to do is get skype for free coaching is that so hard . I'm not helping you through this inefficient communication.
Then why are you here?

Our forums are for people to be able to discuss poker with one another - not only does it help the person starting the thread, but it also helps those who reply, and others who read the thread.

Our forums are not here for people to solicit others to take discussions to Skype for "free coaching". Sadly, there are those who would happily use such an opportunity to offer a free lesson in the hopes of getting new customers for their coaching businesses.
Getting whooped at 6-max 2NL (acr) Quote
11-16-2015 , 09:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett
Then why are you here?

Our forums are for people to be able to discuss poker with one another - not only does it help the person starting the thread, but it also helps those who reply, and others who read the thread.

Our forums are not here for people to solicit others to take discussions to Skype for "free coaching". Sadly, there are those who would happily use such an opportunity to offer a free lesson in the hopes of getting new customers for their coaching businesses.
Just to emphasise what Bobo said: soliciting skype contacts and posting skype names is not allowed in this forum.

This is a general rule, but in the specific case of a poster who has an account that is only a few days old the reasons are clearly even more relevant.

It is not only because of the possibility of commercial gain from coaching arranged by off forum means, it is because BQ posters have been outright scammed and stolen from by skype contacts whose bona fides are not established.
Getting whooped at 6-max 2NL (acr) Quote
11-17-2015 , 02:16 AM
what am I reading
Getting whooped at 6-max 2NL (acr) Quote
11-17-2015 , 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celerity
I think I'll keep it down to 2 tables until I can show a profit for like 10k hands then see if I can keep that up with 3 or 4 tables, if I can change the way I think or plug a few leaks then I should be able to keep that going for more tables..
Multi tabling is something winning players do to increase their hourly. If you're currently losing, I don't think it's necessary to play 4-6 tables. You may not seem overwhelmed but if you're losing then clearly you aren't making good decisions.

I don't think just doing 1 table is necessary, maybe that's extreme, but I would definitely cap it at 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celerity
Can you be more specific with what you mean here as far as what would constitute the bottom of my value range and what would qualify as a bluffing range?
Do a google search for donkr 3/4/5-bet war strategy. There are about 7 articles which discuss GTO 3/4/5-betting and they are phenomenal imo.
Getting whooped at 6-max 2NL (acr) Quote
11-17-2015 , 11:15 AM
Lol. Did that guy offering OP coaching via Skype get banned yet?
Getting whooped at 6-max 2NL (acr) Quote
11-17-2015 , 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thescubatim
Do a google search for donkr 3/4/5-bet war strategy. There are about 7 articles which discuss GTO 3/4/5-betting and they are phenomenal imo.
Agreed. One of the very best free resources out there (and these forums).
Getting whooped at 6-max 2NL (acr) Quote
11-17-2015 , 10:05 PM
I will check that out
Getting whooped at 6-max 2NL (acr) Quote
11-17-2015 , 10:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EC2200
Agreed. One of the very best free resources out there (and these forums).
You're right that it is good material, however it won't be highly useful for a 2nl player and there is much more stuff he can be working on.
Getting whooped at 6-max 2NL (acr) Quote
11-17-2015 , 11:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursafenow
You're right that it is good material, however it won't be highly useful for a 2nl player and there is much more stuff he can be working on.
I disagree. I played 2NL on ACR and it helped my preflop game quite a bit at the time. You have to adjust the ranges though and especially not 4 bet as often, etc.
Getting whooped at 6-max 2NL (acr) Quote
11-18-2015 , 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursafenow
You're right that it is good material, however it won't be highly useful for a 2nl player and there is much more stuff he can be working on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EC2200
I disagree. I played 2NL on ACR and it helped my preflop game quite a bit at the time. You have to adjust the ranges though and especially not 4 bet as often, etc.
I will agree with you that normally you don't need GTO 3/4/5-bet strategy for 2 NL...if you play on Party Poker, Bovada, hell maybe even Stars I dunno, where there's a reasonable reg to fish ratio.

There is no reasonable reg to fish ratio on ACR/BCP...it's just a sea of regs and a fish here and there if you're lucky. So vs. a table full of aggressive regs, it doesn't matter whether it's 2 NL or 200 NL, donkr's articles will be helpful.

One thing to be wary of is to have a plan of action if you 3/4-bet light OOP and they flat. The lower the stake, the more likely that villain's leak will be calling too much which isn't much fun if you have air and the pot is already bloated.
Getting whooped at 6-max 2NL (acr) Quote

      
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