I.e. I am not succeeding in getting paid at 2NL.

Betting half-pot, 60% pot, etc just does not get the typical 2NL to continue anymore, except the occasional calling stations. I try 50%, 66%, 75% on wet spots, etc. They fold, fold, fold.

And then, when I decrease my value bets to 40-55% of a dry pot, I get said here to bet more. Well sorry, then they fold.

Here is my typical session at 2NL: Folds on Flop or checked Turns, hands that pay nowhere they should, etc.

https://www.screencast.com/t/5FdzSbq59e

So how do you manage to get your good hands paid? This frustrates me even more than coolers, because how I am supposed to compensate and grind if I have to struggle to have at least one street paid for significant value?

https://www.screencast.com/t/Euma3wOHsWD

Change table...
keep on playing

I do not play tables less than average 25 VPIP.

Hows your table image? are people avoiding your c bets post flop as you only play strong hands and when you hit strong?

In any case if people are folding to much to you just widen your range pre flop as you have added fold equity post flop to exploit, and at 2nl people wont pick up on this fast and your grind will find that extra profit.
Also you may start find your value bets get paid off as villains will call your c bets lighter.

That's because it's not 2008 anymore. You can't just flop a set, go bet/bet/shove and expect to be paid off by middle or bottom pair.

What is your VPIP/PFR/3bet? What is your flop c-bet %?
Is it 6-max or full ring?

Well what would you do when none of your good hands get action? You could have had two napkins, so just make sure the next time you actually have two napkins so that the next time you actually make a profit when they keep folding. When you're not getting action, you bluff more. Start betting your hands without showdown value but with decent equity when called. QJcc on T72 with 1 club, 67s on 34K etc.

It's definitely harder to get as much value as you could a few years ago, as there aren't so many droolers around these days, but you're probably experiencing some short term variance.
I don't put in a lot of volume, but I often have samples of 5000 hands or more where my value bets seem to get no action, but my bluffs get snapped off. Then occasionally the session from heaven comes along and villains just keep spewing when I have the nuts and poker feels like the easiest game in the world. Unless you've got 100,000 hands in your tracker, you're likely to be reading too much into what's been happening in a small sample recently.
I wouldn't recommend you radically alter your game unless you're actually doing something very wrong (like overbetting for value, and underbetting as a bluff). Keep your sizes nearer to half pot, and just be resigned to the fact that it's rare to get three streets of value in 2017.

P.S. Are you playing Zoom/Fast-fold? What is your AF number? I had a look at the screengrab, and you don't seem to be doing much checking. Pot-controlling and checking to induce is just as important as betting.

6-max 2NL, no Zoom. Tables over 25 VPIP as much as possible.


This are my stats and cbetting rates, starting from April 1st, 2017:

https://www.screencast.com/t/M4irKFVf

https://www.screencast.com/t/WO6AcHbX5y

Your showdown stats suggest you're just running really bad over a small sample. With 24% wtsd (very tight) your won at showdown should be 55%+.

Yeah, it's probably mostly just runbad, but that W$SD of only 43% is worrying. You can/should cut down on your c-betting and barrelling with more of your mid-strength (one pair) hands if villains aren't paying off with worse. I think C-betting 67% of the time is a bit too aggro for today's games and an AF of 2.0 (instead of 2.76) would be closer to optimal.

I might have a reason why I am doing so.

Since I target tables with over 25 VPIP I often find myself in multiway pots. When checked back to me, I either c-bet the flop IP to try to win the pot right there or bet my top pair or second top pair when it hits.

Should I stop doing with the latter situation, and check/call?

If you're playing a lot of multiway pots, your c-bet frequency should be even lower, since you need a much stronger hand to beat multiple players. Typically this means you should only be building big pots multiway with hands that are close to the nuts, or drawing to the nuts. You can still c-bet TPGK in position (be more inclined to check-call when OOP), but don't go for three streets with one pair. You should often be trying to get to a cheap showdown if you don't have a legitimate monster or monster draw.
If you look at the HEM report "hand at showdown (detailed)", I assume you're losing with all your one pairs, and possibly two pairs as well. If you exercise some pot control and check back a street or two, one pair should at least break even, since checking should induce some bluffs you can call... or you can check back scary rivers and lose the minimum. You can't expect to win at showdown very often if you keep building big pots with hands of medium strength. Top pair is not a monster, especially multiway. It's a hand that does best if only 1 or 2 bets go in.

You say that everyone is folding to your cbets... yet you only have a 47% success percentage with them. Cognitive dissonance.

Indeed, I lose a lot of money with those kinds of hands. I can understand high card as they often end up losing to even a made pair, but 31BI seems huge!

https://www.screencast.com/t/1lyousxpA1TK

Here is the Hands at Showdown, but since April 1st only:

https://www.screencast.com/t/bWzhmXa2

He means everybody with worse hands is folding.

Good point. I would point out that in my experience, 47% 'c-bet success rate' is actually quite high in the micros. Mine was stuck on 43% for years. I wonder if OP is also using quite large sizings, which means his opponents fold pretty often, but continue with even tighter/stronger ranges... which implies he should be even more careful about barreling off. The trend in the last couple of years has been towards smaller c-bet sizes, especially when OOP, partly because even the looser villains are good at folding the trashier hands if you bet big.

Yeah, those red numbers are pretty scary. I don't have my big database on this PC, but I recall my AF numbers for most of the one pair holdings were much lower than yours, and I somehow even managed to make money at showdown with 2nd pair.
I would recommend you try being a bit more passive/cautious, especially OOP. As an exercise, you should see how you get on by check-calling TPGK when you're OOP as the pre-flop raiser. A lot of players get into heaps of trouble when they c-bet things like KJ on J86 or QT on T52 OOP, as they never know what to do on the turn or river. If you check the flop, it's not a disaster if villain checks back, but if he takes a stab, you have a routine call, and then it's very rare for villain to triple barrel unless he actually has you crushed, so your decisions are actually pretty easy. I treat most of my one pairs as bluff-catchers and it seems to work pretty well, as it keeps the pot-size under control and I often get to show down the best hand.

Understood, I will try this out.

Would you check-call on the Turn, also even if you hit a two pair or trips there? Are there situations where you would donk bet the Turn or the River for value?

Finally, how about when Villain check IP, then you check the Turn and he checks back again. Aren't you missing value when hands have hands like middle pairs that they play passively?

Just got such a hand tonight during my session: TPGK on the Flop OOP. I got coolered, and I was very tempted to bet that Turn when it paired the board.

Was that standard to what you were recommending?

Bet the flop.

Damn yeah couldn't have said it any better arty

@OP if people aren't calling ur value bets you shud prolly be bluffing more/exploiting...

In regards to the KJo HH you posted that is just FPS and a pretty bad adjustment in this type of game, usually would x KJo/Kx here vs villain who has a high 2-barrel and sometimes villain's who won't call much with worse

I almost never donk after check-calling, but if villain checks back flop or turn, then I'll usually lead the next street. Medium strength hands are the best hands for delayed c-bets, and it's easy to balance them by also betting with hands that picked up a backdoor draw on the turn.
e.g. If I'm OTB vs BB and the flop is T52r, I'll usually check back JT/T9/T8, since I'm not looking for 3 streets of value. Suppose the turn is an 8 that adds a FD. I'll be delay c-betting 88, T8, and JT, T9 for value (all of these hands are check backs on the flop) and balance with hands like 76s, Q9/J9/97 (if I didn't bet flop with them) and just about any hand that now has a FD. Even some ace highs and underpairs can be delay c-bet for protection/value.
On the same T528 board OOP, I'll be check(-calling) KT/QT as well as the weaker tens and 99-66, since we just want to puke if villain raises (or even flats us) when we c-bet the flop with marginal hands OOP. If the flop checks through, we start betting all the top pairs that didn't bet the flop, along with any "slowplays" that we checked on the flop with the intention of check-raising (e.g. TT, 55).
That hand is a slightly different spot, because it's BvB*, where ranges are much wider. Although it's fairly close (I would sometimes check-call KT and worse Kx), KJ is high enough in your range to make a standard bet for value BvB, planning to either barrel or check call the turn.
The fact that villain actually bet 77 when you checked to him shows how checking to induce bluffs actually works. He bet with a hand that was almost drawing dead, so you were most unfortunate that he binked his two-outer this time. He might have called a c-bet anyway, but I think 77 should mostly just fold on the flop if you bet, so you actually do better by checking if villain folds a lot to c-bets, but stabs with "air" when you give him the chance.

* If you'd had KJ on K98 OOP vs the button, I'd use the same line you did on that particular runout. (On totally blank rivers, value-bet the river after villain checks the turn).

why?

Why not? This card is a scare card to win the pot right there if Villain puts me on a lower pair on the flop.