Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > General Poker Discussion > Beginners Questions

Notices

Beginners Questions Poker beginner ? Ask your (possibly) naive question here and our community will attempt to help you.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-05-2012, 10:32 AM   #1
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 65
Flatting with AK?

Thought flatting villain's raise here was good as it would keep his weaker aces in (i.e. AQ, maybe AJ)...of course it backfired on me...did I play this okay and just get unlucky or did I screw this hand up too?

Merge $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

UTG+1: $7.33
Hero (UTG+2): $10.24
MP1: $24.92
MP2: $9.54
CO: $20.16
BTN: $10.83
SB: $11.70
BB: $10.00
UTG: $13.34

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is UTG+2 with K A
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $0.30, Hero calls $0.30, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.30, 4 folds

Flop: ($1.05) 2 5 A (3 players)
UTG+1 bets $0.60, Hero calls $0.60, MP2 folds

Turn: ($2.25) 3 (2 players)
UTG+1 bets $3.00, Hero calls $3

River: ($8.25) T (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $5.50, UTG+1 calls $3.43 all in

Final Pot: $15.11
UTG+1 shows 2 3
Hero shows K A
UTG+1 wins $14.36
(Rake: $0.75)
solarinvestor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 10:37 AM   #2
veteran
 
Bartlett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,907
Re: Flatting with AK?

[ ] fancy play makes money at uNl
Bartlett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 11:06 AM   #3
centurion
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 167
Re: Flatting with AK?

Against a nit flating would be good, but this guy is not full stacked, so it seems he's not a good player. 3bet and go from there. As played flop seems good, OTT shove if you think he is betting AJ-AQ here, or fold when he is passive and not spewy, he could often have here 2pair or a set. Just my opinion.
Gatavas19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 12:19 PM   #4
veteran
 
TheDefiniteArticle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Polarizing my folding range
Posts: 3,498
Re: Flatting with AK?

Very villain dependent. If he only plays vs bets with QQ+, AK then clearly 3betting is bad.
TheDefiniteArticle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 01:11 PM   #5
The Situation
 
Sol Reader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: See PG&C Thread. @IsoAcq
Posts: 7,842
Re: Flatting with AK?

Hero's line is fine. If you knew he was a very loose player and who a) raises super light, b) may call 3bets light though, then 3betting is generally much better.
Sol Reader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 01:17 PM   #6
adept
 
the_spike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 931
Re: Flatting with AK?

I don't like hero's line here very much. Preflop fine. Flop also OK. However the reasoning that he's getting more action from AQ/AJ doesn't make sense. Obviously villain was willing to stack off in this hand. That means either that hero was behind, or that villain would have stacked off with AJ/AQ anyway. Therefore, hero either should have folded the turn, or gotten it all in on the turn. Or perhaps raised the flop and then decided from there.
the_spike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 01:23 PM   #7
veteran
 
zumby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: What do you see?
Posts: 3,368
Re: Flatting with AK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Reader View Post
Hero's line is fine. If you knew he was a very loose player and who a) raises super light, b) may call 3bets light though, then 3betting is generally much better.
+1
zumby is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 02:34 PM   #8
stranger
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 9
Re: Flatting with AK?

Looks fine to me
allin2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 04:41 PM   #9
Pooh-Bah
 
ArtySmokes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Essex, UK
Posts: 5,388
Re: Flatting with AK?

I'm flatting pre here almost all the the time if villain is a reg, nit or unknown.
Villain's overbet on the turn is wacky as hell and starts alarm bells ringing. I doubt there is a 4 in his range, but I'm probably checking behind on the river so I can find out wtf he's got without giving him my stack in the process.

Having seen the showdown, you can make useful notes on this player. e.g. He's not positionally aware, raises junk in EP, overbets 2pr+, checks river with the best hand etc.
In future against this player, 3-betting AK would generally be better.
ArtySmokes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 05:41 PM   #10
Who killed me?
 
nismo9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Howard Lederer's pocket
Posts: 4,511
Re: Flatting with AK?

This was played fine. Preflop and flop were perfectly optimal.
nismo9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 08:32 PM   #11
journeyman
 
elektrik23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 337
Re: Flatting with AK?

Why is everyone advocating for flatting? Op is playing the micros no need for fancy play, he is just giving odds to anyone around him, plus he even has people left to act. If villain wants to play his weak aces then he has to pay.
elektrik23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 08:34 PM   #12
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
chad0x001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Here. Bad Posts: 34,417 Good
Posts: 8,200
Re: Flatting with AK?

Ive seen people advocating getting all in with AK because "its the micros, you are ahead of their range!" well, a lot of the time you're not. this isnt 2004 anymore.
chad0x001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 08:40 PM   #13
journeyman
 
elektrik23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 337
Re: Flatting with AK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chad0x00 View Post
Ive seen people advocating getting all in with AK because "its the micros, you are ahead of their range!" well, a lot of the time you're not. this isnt 2004 anymore.
That is something completely different. We are value betting , if the guy is an unkown I will fold to his 4 bets ofc but giving him odds to set mine or play garbage hands is ridiculous, esp OP relative to other players.
elektrik23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 08:42 PM   #14
old hand
 
Frostyice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,976
Re: Flatting with AK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by elektrik23 View Post
Why is everyone advocating for flatting? Op is playing the micros no need for fancy play, he is just giving odds to anyone around him, plus he even has people left to act. If villain wants to play his weak aces then he has to pay.
Elektrik what do you mean with giving odds to anyone around him?

The only thing that might happen is that they call with worse? Maybe they setmine with pairs but I haven't seen people call A3 OTB because there was an UTG raise and UTG+1 call
And even then it would be a GOOD thing having people call with worse

actually I think it's standard to call even AA to UTG raises IIRC because it's kind of extremly obvious what kind of hand you have if you raise UTG+1s FR open as UTG+2

On the hand, I think pre is fine, I think flop is fine

But turn villain is bombing the turn
He is overbetting more than 1.3x Pot

He's totally overdoing it I'd be inclined to fold AK here, what kind of hands do you think he almost 1.5x pot bets here? AT? AQ? Really?
His flop cbet size is a great indicator for what he'll do with his 1pair-ish hands on the turn

+ I think it's better to make a small mistake folding here than getting stacks in and getting shown better most of the time

Last edited by Frostyice; 08-05-2012 at 08:47 PM.
Frostyice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 08:44 PM   #15
The Situation
 
Sol Reader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: See PG&C Thread. @IsoAcq
Posts: 7,842
Re: Flatting with AK?

It's not "fancy", it's standard. 3betting would be fancy because it would be a bluff.
Sol Reader is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive