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Old 02-07-2012, 08:09 PM   #1
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FINALLY I had a good session! Advice please.

Just played 160 hands on 2 tables on .02/.04 cake and doubled my money! Woohoo! Thanks BOATLOADS to everybody who's been helping me!!!!!

I'm not going to let it go to my head though - the tables had more fish than the Pacific Ocean. I couldn't believe how many times I was on the button or cutoff, 4 people would limp, I'd bet 4bb with ATC and the whole table would fold to me. I was like, thanks! Or I'd limp along with K5s from the BB, the flop would be something like Q96r, I'd check, so would everyone else, and I'd bet the pot on the turn no matter what the card was. Fold, fold, fold, my pot. It got to the point where I was betting with any two broadway cards, because I was NEVER getting re-raised and it was making me more money than what it was costing me the few times I had to c/f a flop.

I'd like some advice on how to get over my being such a coward. Below is one of the 3 hands that won me the most money. There were several cases like this where I wanted to shove, but I was scared, and I probably left a LOT of money on the table. If anyone can tell me anything that would make me less afraid to shove in situations like these I'd really appreciate it!

On this particular hand, I wanted to shove the turn but I got scared by the 3 clubs. I was also scared to bet the river because I thought I'd get checkraised.

Cake - $0.04 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: $4.34
UTG: $3.16
UTG+1: $1.72
MP: $17.22
CO: $2.00
Hero (BTN): $5.19
SB: $2.25

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04

Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has 8 8

fold, fold, MP raises to $0.12, fold, Hero calls $0.12, fold, fold

Flop: ($0.30, 2 players) 7 3 2
MP bets $0.30, Hero calls $0.30

Turn: ($0.90, 2 players) 8
MP bets $0.58, Hero raises to $1.16, MP calls $0.58

River: ($3.22, 2 players) K
MP checks, Hero checks

Last edited by DalTXColtsFan; 02-07-2012 at 08:12 PM. Reason: proper gratitude conveyed
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:22 PM   #2
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Re: FINALLY I had a good session! Advice please.

My response is pretty villain dependant, if he's aggro I just raise turn and try to get it in knowing he has worse in his range.

If he's OK or passive, because you have position you can just call here and re-eval on river. When he checks, he probably does not have the flush, pot size is around $2, you have $4 behind, you can then go ahead and bet-fold if you think he only jams with the flush.

I dislike your raise because it's another ****ing miniraise please stop doing this agghhhwtfbbbqq11111 but if you are going to raise do it properly. Raising is villain dependant as I said, if he's aggro he's getting raised.
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:31 PM   #3
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Re: FINALLY I had a good session! Advice please.

Not real keen on the flop call there. Repping the flush is okish on the turn villain dependant. But you have a wide range there that could beat you and a large part of it wanting to keep you in. At micro if you believe you are in front you may as well be getting it in there on the flop to get a fold or get a draw to call and hopefully miss. It looks awkwardly played (played from behind hoping) without info on the table feel or the specific villain.
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:01 AM   #4
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Re: FINALLY I had a good session! Advice please.

why did you raise the turn but not bet the river?

I'd either
a. call turn and call a non river or bet a non river when checked to, or
b. raise turn and shove a non river
depending on what hands I think my opponent will go all in with.

It doesn't make any sense to raise turn then not bet a non the river. It's like you're thinking "I'm raising the turn with 888 for value because I don't think he has a flush", then on the river you're like "I think he has a flush now" even though nothing changed. Do you really think he will check a flush on the river?

also, you minraised again. please don't post another hand where you minraise.
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:23 AM   #5
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Re: FINALLY I had a good session! Advice please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DalTXColtsFan View Post
On this particular hand, I wanted to shove the turn but I got scared by the 3 clubs. I was also scared to bet the river because I thought I'd get checkraised.
One of the reasons we raise (other than for value) is that it makes decisions on later streets easier. We raise our very strong hands because we want to get our whole stack in and double up. You shouldn't be particularly scared of a flush in this hand, as there are only really three possible nut hands that fit villain's line (he raised pre-flop) and they are AKcc, AQcc and AJcc. I guess KQcc is also possible, but that's still only 4 hands out of 1326 possible combos. In other words, it's highly unlikely villain has the flush. A more likely holding for villain is an overpair or AK with one club. There are loads of combos of pocket 9s, 10s, Jacks, queens, kings and aces that would have raised pre-flop and then bet the flop and turn. So you see, made flushes are a tiny part of his range. Overpairs and AK are much more likely, and you can get a lot of value from them. Villain will certainly keep betting if he has a pair with a club. If you think your turned set is the best hand (and 99% of the time it will be), you should raise the turn and raise BIG. Make it at least 3x villain's turn bet, so you charge him for chasing the flush. The minraise gives villain great odds to call and try and hit the flush. Don't give him those odds.

If you raise big on the turn, you commit so much of your stack that a river shove becomes trivial. About the only time you'd raise the turn and then not shove the river is if another club (apart from the 7, which would give you a boat) hits the board. Your set would rarely be good if there were 4 clubs on the board. The Kh is essentially a blank. Shove for value, hoping villain had AK with the flush draw, or TT, JJ, QQ, AA.

Last edited by ArtySmokes; 02-08-2012 at 02:28 AM.
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:23 AM   #6
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Re: FINALLY I had a good session! Advice please.

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Originally Posted by Combat Waitress View Post
also, you minraised again. please don't post another hand where you minraise.
Actually I would like to go one point further with OP. Tomorrow's session you are not allowed to minbet even once. Deal?

(((While that is not perfect strat because I DO believe there are one or three times in my 1000 hand sessions where a minbet is appropriate....... OP needs to stop minbetting as a quasi-rule of his pokering Law....before it becomes routine.)))
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Old 02-08-2012, 03:46 AM   #7
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Re: FINALLY I had a good session! Advice please.

don't raise turn. (if he has flush already, he is never folding, and you are screwed, if he doesn't have it, he'll be more willing to pay you off on river). he could easily have an over pair here, he seems to be afraid of the K as it might represent an over card to him.....
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Old 02-08-2012, 04:41 AM   #8
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Re: FINALLY I had a good session! Advice please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Combat Waitress View Post

also, you minraised again. please don't post another hand where you minraise.
lol
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:09 AM   #9
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Re: FINALLY I had a good session! Advice please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DalTXColtsFan View Post
On this particular hand, I wanted to shove the turn but I got scared by the 3 clubs.
You should be more afraid of not betting and letting another club come to complete his flush
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:26 AM   #10
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Re: FINALLY I had a good session! Advice please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DalTXColtsFan View Post
On this particular hand, I wanted to shove the turn but I got scared by the 3 clubs. I was also scared to bet the river because I thought I'd get checkraised.
lets ignore the fact that if you were scared of clubs you shouldnt have raised in the first place, because I've already covered that.

this is a matter of mentality. you should not be "scared" of anything. what "scares" you? losing the hand, or losing the money? why are you not scared of leaving money on the table with the best hand?

play every hand like you're going to post it here and you are "scared" of being ridiculed for your play.
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:39 PM   #11
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Re: FINALLY I had a good session! Advice please.

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Originally Posted by Combat Waitress View Post
play every hand like you're going to post it here and you are "scared" of being ridiculed for your play.
I definitely could use this advice.
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:01 PM   #12
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Re: FINALLY I had a good session! Advice please.

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Originally Posted by lowanizer View Post
don't raise turn. (if he has flush already, he is never folding, and you are screwed, if he doesn't have it, he'll be more willing to pay you off on river). he could easily have an over pair here, he seems to be afraid of the K as it might represent an over card to him.....
That's exactly why we need to raise turn against most sensible villains. So many rivers are action-killers that the only way to get substantially paid off by any unsuited hand holding Ac or Kc or by overpairs is to raise turn. If villain has JJ here, then the K on the river could easily prevent you from getting a stack you might win on the turn. And if villain has Ac Qd or something, we may not win any money at all on the river unless villain hits a pair.

The only kind of villain I wouldn't raise here is one who is very likely to barrel complete air every street, but who would fold to a raise. Then I might take the risk of the fourth club coming to win the big bet on the river. But against a villain who is usually betting turn with some kind of hand, I'd raise every time, since most of those hands aren't made flushes, and many will call a raise. And I wouldn't min-raise.
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:23 PM   #13
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Re: FINALLY I had a good session! Advice please.

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Originally Posted by kamikaze baby View Post
I'd raise every time, since most of those hands aren't made flushes, and many will call a raise.
your argument is interesting but how can you be so sure of this? I mean if I have an over pair (with no club), the 3rd club comes, and I get raised, I'd get suspicious.
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