He recommends this for live 1-2 games. I have a brick and mortar rather close to my house and they rarely spread anything bigger than 1-2. The way the game plays is most of the time it's a showdown game, and raised pots will always be multi-way.

Given these game dynamics, I have to assume we should not be raising our full range as recommended in this book?

Or, should we raise bigger? Standard open is 8-12. Let's say we double that to try and keep the pot heads up.

Thoughts

What parts of your range would you not want to raise with? If it's hands like 67s then you should probably just fold them because the biggest reason they can be playable is if you have fold equity. If there isn't any then you need to play hands with sheer showdown equity like broadway cards and bigger pairs. Don't fall in the trap of limping hands just because you think a raise won't work, just fold.

This game is pretty ideal. Lots of people calling raises with hands that cannot all be that good. If you find that you keep getting called by many people and they have worse hands, raise bigger. No reason not to raise to $20 with ATs if they call with worse. Just make sure you play tight in early positions so you get to play postflop with position.

77 and below. QJ suited and below. One of the 3-4 callers is always going to call with Ace rag / King rag and it will get shown down. It plays like a limit holdem game. Which I have no problem nitting it up, I'm just trying to see the validity of always raising in this particular game.

I don't think that is true that you play in a "show down" game. Next time you play, keep a running count of how many hands actually get to show down vs. the ones everyone eventually folds. I'd be surprised that even a 1/3 of the hands result in seeing what the winning hand was.

At a very basic level, limping/calling through a hand gives you only one way to win: Have the best hand at show down. Betting and raising gives you a second way: Have people fold. Having two ways to win should be better than just having one way to win.

Beyond that, it is a useful tool to prevent you from playing too many weak hands. It is the biggest leak overall for most starting players. It is also one that many players don't notice because, "it is just a couple of bucks" when they fold. Everyone can tell you a story limping in with something like 53s and winning a big pot. What they can't tell you is about the number of times they folded on the flop. Or when they hit a flush draw, but got "coolered" by a bigger flush.

In very weak games, I don't mind limping in. However, I won't limp in with something that I won't call a reasonably sized raise.

I haven't read the book your referring to and I only play 6 max but as a rule of thumb limping pre is a poor strategy and I'm only ever doing it with some low pps under specific circumstances.
If your playing the same game regularly your ranges should be tailored to your opponents. Removing or adding hands to your opening range in every position and adjusting raise sizes is going to be far more advantageius than simply limping with more hands in an effort to take advantage of your opponents passivity.

If I remember correctly he addresses this issue in the book and recommends that you can replace the lowest hands on his recommendations list with other hands you prefer (example replacing 22 with AJo). He also tackles multiway issues. I don't have the book near me or id quote.

Even in microstakes, you can get punished for limping into pots, especially if you're in an early position. A limp says you have a weaker hand that's somewhat playable, like Q10 or J10, smaller pocket pairs, some smaller suited connectors. It's transparent and players will be likely to make a large raise/squeeze you with weak hands, forcing you to fold and lose a small portion of your stack.

This is the reason why players say "never limp". I actually think "never limp" is too prescriptive as there are opportunities to exploit certain players or maybe disguise your hand with a limp. I also think it sometimes makes sense to anticipate a raise and be happy to call it when you wouldn't want to call a re-raise or a shove, dependent on your stack size.

However, in general, you should be raising with the vast majority of your playable hands. You need to be able to put your opponents on a range with some reasonable degree of accuracy. You don't want to hit a strong hand only to find your opponent has hit a straight flush with 47 suited, because you allowed them to limp in with trash.

Most importantly, you want your opponents to fold where they have equity, either pre or on the flop. If you raise with QJ in late position, the blinds might fold hands like K5 or A2, and you pick up chips without being put to the test. Also, when you raise pre, your c-bets carry more weight. If you make a chunky bet pre-flop and then c-bet with an Ace on the board, your opponents will have to put you on the Ace. So you make money without going to showdown, and if you say this doesn't happen in the games that you play, then you should exploit that and start making it happen!

Raising everyhand you intend to play is good advice. But, I would also suggest over limping in multiway pots if you have a hand that flops nutted hands (78s etc) and you are confident you are not goig to get squeezed by the players left to act.

Also in tournament play. If getting shallow stacked I will open limp some hands that are good enough to raise but not face a 3bet. Limp with the expectation of calling a raise. Its a method of pot control when you have players that reraise pre a lot.

For instance. With 22BB, I may open limp low pocket pairs with the intention of set or fold on flop. If i raise and get jammed on I have to fold. If I limp and get raised I can call and invest the same amount of chips as my raise would have been. If I limp and get jammed on I can fold an only lose the one BB.

Good luck

78s does not flop any more nutted hands than 78o does and 78o is trash.

If stacks are shallow winning the blinds and antes becomes very important. Nobody ever won the blinds by limping.

Only 1 BB? You might want to do some math to figure out why this strategy is lighting money on fire.

In terms of the 78s example, actually literally any hand can potentially hit a nutted hand, so that terminology is maybe unhelpful. However, 78s is a good hand to get cheaply into multiway pots because you're looking for straights, flushes and straight flushes, which are very strong (as opposed to nutted) hands and if you connect this way then you're likely to beat the top pairs or overpairs of your opponents in a multiway.

As I said above, you want to be raising your playable hands the vast majority of the time. However, I think it's foolish to discount limping strategies when the action and players support them.

Raising simply adds a win that we otherwise would never get, Raise people fold, blinds get shipped.

If you're raising and getting called by a ton of players than hunker down and adjust to your villians, 53s is great against Tags for F/e but vs a bunch of calling stations you can better have K8o ,

Tighten your range for raising, raise slightly larger, and only be limping hands in late position if you know the tendencies of the people behind you.

But if you limp hands you never raise than your limping range is going to be too weak, (assuming open limping) which I agree should NEVER be done, except extreme versions of b/b in HU and Tournies there can be an arguement for it,

Sorry Im getting long winded,

tldr

Raise value hands, bet for value, bet for value, bet for value. Learn that bet fold will be your bread and butter in these games against most it takes bit hands for passive players to become agressive, but see, thats it they are not getting agressive they are VALUE betting you.

plus the game doesnt end pre, you raise they call, you play poker, there is going to be a flop, maybe a turn and river. Well each and everyone of those streeets you need to be trying to max out your ev or dive out of the way of -ev situations,

Each time you act , Try to make to best decision you can make with the information present,


Im playing in games at the moment that are LIMP heavy, people running 50/5 over 1000s of hands,

Everyone limps, and just cause they are passive pre dont mean the same for post, its mad can be tricky but they are beatable, just play your A game and solid solid solid solid, till you feel more comfy playing multi way