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Dealing with a lagtard to my right. Dealing with a lagtard to my right.

03-17-2012 , 03:42 PM
So villain is 33/29/4 overall and is on my immediate right. He is raising 80% from the sb. He is also really spewy post-flop.

A couple questions.

1. What should my raising and calling ranges be in the BB?

2. Should I switch tables or does the fact that he's really spewy post-flop make up for the fact that he's stealing so many blinds from me?
Dealing with a lagtard to my right. Quote
03-17-2012 , 03:53 PM
These guys can be variance ridden, but they're definitely +ev. In the BB if he is 3x ATC I would call 55+, T8s, J8s, Q8s, Kxs, Axs; 3bet anything that can turn into TPGK K9+, AT+ etc.

As for playing post flop against these guys it's really a matter of patience and waiting for a spot that he will value-town himself to death. Once again, huge +ev.

Might I add if you're playing nl4 don't worry so much about someone stealing alot of blinds it's not that big of a deal when you can easily pick up 10-50BB pots quite frequently at these stakes because people leak small amounts all the time.
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03-17-2012 , 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTL
does the fact that he's really spewy post-flop make up for the fact that he's stealing so many blinds from me?
It certainly should do, if we know what we're doing postflop.

The guy is inviting you to get into a ton of raised pots with him when
(a) you have position
(b) he has a super-wide range and
(c) he's spewy.

No way I'd want to change tables.

EDIT: I'm not in any rush to bloat the pot pre, either. The more money behind, the greater your positional advantage is worth.
Dealing with a lagtard to my right. Quote
03-17-2012 , 03:57 PM
The fact he's spewy means you should relish the fact he is on your right. You can fold a lot of marginal hands in the blinds, but more than make up for it by playing solid hands in position.
I think there's probably more value in flatting (not raising) all hands that flop well. You can raise TT+ obviously, but suited Broadways are ahead of his range and are easy to play in position. I'd probably dump KTo, QTo and maybe JTo, but hands like QJs and JTs can make better TPTKs than him, and also give you straight draws and flush draws. ATo+ and all suited aces should also be profitable.
Typically, you should get rid of cards with a low rank (other than small pocket pairs) and aim to win pots with TP+.
I think the range would be kind of similar to the one I use for stealing blinds against a loose player.
22+, A2s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KJo+ represents 17% of hands, so it seems pretty tight, but I think you can play for stacks with most of them if you hit the flop against this villain.
Dealing with a lagtard to my right. Quote
03-17-2012 , 03:59 PM
80% is mental. You should be defending against that with any ace, any two suited cards, any pair and any two cards higher than an 8. Dividing that range into flat/3bet really depends on how he reacts to 3bets.
Dealing with a lagtard to my right. Quote
03-17-2012 , 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokes
The fact he's spewy means you should relish the fact he is on your right. You can fold a lot of marginal hands in the blinds, but more than make up for it by playing solid hands in position.
I think there's probably more value in flatting (not raising) all hands that flop well. You can raise TT+ obviously, but suited Broadways are ahead of his range and are easy to play in position. I'd probably dump KTo, QTo and maybe JTo, but hands like QJs and JTs can make better TPTKs than him, and also give you straight draws and flush draws. ATo+ and all suited aces should also be profitable.
Typically, you should get rid of cards with a low rank (other than small pocket pairs) and aim to win pots with TP+.
I think the range would be kind of similar to the one I use for stealing blinds against a loose player.
22+, A2s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KJo+ represents 17% of hands, so it seems pretty tight, but I think you can play for stacks with most of them if you hit the flop against this villain.
This is very good advice but if he is literally raising ATC we can still get value out of some unmentioned hands, IMO, these guys don't really like folding so there's alot of value in a wide range of hands. Then again I've checked my nl4 stats and I seem to be one of the more aggressive players so I guess it's just kinda how you feel postflop. Arty's advice will win you tons against these guys though.
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03-17-2012 , 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zumby
80% is mental. You should be defending against that with any ace, any two suited cards, any pair and any two cards higher than an 8. Dividing that range into flat/3bet really depends on how he reacts to 3bets.
I feel like when playing against laggy players that like the fact that they have initiative in a hand so I like 3betting alot against these guys to take that away. I doubt anyone at OP's stake is 4betting lightly so it's not going to get countered.
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03-17-2012 , 04:15 PM
Good stuff guys. Thank you.
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03-17-2012 , 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenKKenobi
I feel like when playing against laggy players that like the fact that they have initiative in a hand so I like 3betting alot against these guys to take that away. I doubt anyone at OP's stake is 4betting lightly so it's not going to get countered.
Agree. It's like playing HUNL, except you get to 3bet IP instead of OOP. I'd play that game forever.
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03-17-2012 , 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenKKenobi
I feel like when playing against laggy players that like the fact that they have initiative in a hand so I like 3betting alot against these guys to take that away.
Depends how he reacts, though. We've agreed that by opening so many hands and playing them OOP he's costing himself money. If, by 3-betting him a lot, we cause him to tighten up, we're encouraging him to play more correctly.

Of course, if he reacts by opening even more hands (although given that he's already opening 80%, that's difficult to imagine ), then fine.

We shouldn't be bothered about getting into some kind of ego game with the guy, showing him that we can't be pushed around. It's his stack we're after.
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03-17-2012 , 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiamondDog
Depends how he reacts, though. We've agreed that by opening so many hands and playing them OOP he's costing himself money. If, by 3-betting him a lot, we cause him to tighten up, we're encouraging him to play more correctly.

Of course, if he reacts by opening even more hands (although given that he's already opening 80%, that's difficult to imagine ), then fine.

We shouldn't be bothered about getting into some kind of ego game with the guy, showing him that we can't be pushed around. It's his stack we're after.
I don't use a hud so I can't really identify a player type by just looking at them numbers but I'm mainly talking about the guys that love barreling. I've noticed if you pick around and find the right spots and steal initiative from them you can take the pot down many times with cbet. They will bet, bet, bet if they think you're weak but the moment you put your foot down they are ready to fold.

I definitely agree though, at the same time, it's the micros if you're not comfortable postflop with marginal type lines then it's best just to play ABC and let his bad play do him in.
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03-17-2012 , 08:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiamondDog
We shouldn't be bothered about getting into some kind of ego game with the guy, showing him that we can't be pushed around. It's his stack we're after.
Agreed. While some maniacs will back down if you start 3-betting them, I think it's much better in general to trap them.
If an opponent is aggressive, I see little to gain from trying to out-aggress him. Use his aggression as leverage against him, as if you were an undersized Sumo wrestler. If he comes running at you, you take a step to the side and he falls flat on his face.
In poker terms, you let him bet his no pair and call with your TPTK. Save your aggression till later streets, where he becomes committed to bluffing and you win his stack by calling or raising the river.
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03-17-2012 , 10:27 PM
If he raises 80% of hands out of the SB into your BB then you should be calling with a range of at least 80% of hands. You have position on him and he is just making it more expensive for him to play out of position. If you fold 65% of the time then villain automatically makes money. So you must have at least a 35% calling range and throw in a 10% 3-bet range. I would personally call with 70% of hands and 3-bet around 15% of them. I would float a lot and bluff raise quite a bit. His range can't take a lot of heat. Slowly drop down your range as you see villain adjusting to your calling range (if he even does). If he likes to barrel a ton and get you off of hands then I would tighten up my calling range preflop to say a standardish button opening range (like 45-55%) and be prepared to call down lighter.
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03-17-2012 , 10:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveh07
If he raises 80% of hands out of the SB into your BB then you should be calling with a range of at least 80% of hands. You have position on him and he is just making it more expensive for him to play out of position. If you fold 65% of the time then villain automatically makes money. So you must have at least a 35% calling range and throw in a 10% 3-bet range. I would personally call with 70% of hands and 3-bet around 15% of them. I would float a lot and bluff raise quite a bit. His range can't take a lot of heat. Slowly drop down your range as you see villain adjusting to your calling range (if he even does). If he likes to barrel a ton and get you off of hands then I would tighten up my calling range preflop to say a standardish button opening range (like 45-55%) and be prepared to call down lighter.
+1

It's not about ego wars, villain is opening an incredibly weak range when we have position and close the action. 'Trapping with big hands' is not the most profitable strategy here. If he was opening 40% it might be more of a discussion.
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