I got a sample of 'building a bankroll' by verneer and it is about online poker and it mainly incorporates information about data that you'd have using a HUD like VPIP and I wouldn't have this advantage in live play. Why did you suggest this book Busche??

- vulture

people exaggerate , poker is not basketball , poker is a card game , no muscle memory or pattern or hand skill is required , you only need knowledge to be successfull and some patience , so yes if a pro came and told you everything you need to know it could be possible to jump to higher games and win , i have seen this in action , i know many people who started really low like micros for example and played just a few games then jumped to mid+ stakes and some of them crushed them for a very big sample. Of course they didnt do it without proper coaching and plan. They also had decent intelligent and gaming background.


Its possible for op to do the same but it depends on his intelligent level and strategy game plus mathematical background , imo dont spend your time with books or videos , its the longest way to reach the top and many things you will learn wont always be correct or will be for the wrong reasons plus many topics you will learn are debated a lot which means you will spend a lot of time reasoning things yourself and asking forums to get a better answer , all this stuff slows you down a lot. Since i have tried all ways in my gaming career , if you want to reach the top as fast as possible then coaching is the best way to do this , forums are also great imo , i think i have learned really crucial things from forums which books never explained to me.


Just do this

1. start with a very good basic book like dynamic full ring poker or building a bankroll , blackrain books are good too. Just to get an idea and develop a generic plan.

2. play a bunch of hands with this plan at 1/2 level to get some experience. Apply as much as possible from
these books.


from there try to dig deep in theory of poker and find proper coaches preferably some with good feedback and a lot of success to teach you about it , also find coaches with success on the games you are interested to teach you about strategical adjustments you should make.


Anyway jumping to high stakes without a proper bankroll and preparation is a suicide , also dont expect to sit with the pros and outplay them with your superior strategy , some things are crucial to survive on that level like table selection , cartels etc , its like a business , if you want to make money you gotta find costumers who will pay you and know when they are availiable and how to exploit their mistakes , excelling on strategy too is important but its not the only factor.

The fundamental ideas still translate. In live poker you many not have a HUD but you will need to pay attention to player tendencies, has this player folded/played every hand in the last hour.

I don't have a HUD but I can still tell you what % of hands ppl are playing, from what position they are playing them, things like how often they cbet, if they bluff missed rivers.

Online if you sit down to an unknown opponent you can tell 2 things right away: stack size and player name.
Live you can see their age, what they are wearing, stack size, facial expressions. If I have an older opponent at a table he's probably a nit (low VPIP), but if there's a you'd kid with headphones in he's probably a TAG or LAG.

You might not have a HUD playing live, but if you don't know these things within an hour of playing with someone you are missing out of valuable information.

If I see a kid with headphones I would assume he would be a nit.

BOOM!

what makes you say this? I dont think there are any "closely guarded secrets" its just one of those things you can only learn through trial and error and I'm guessing it also depends on the person themself, just like no sport has any closely guarded secrets I don't think poker is much different

"aptitude" is the word I was looking for, creds to dgi lol

sickest story I read in time, are you an author bro?

shutup meg

There is a great thread in bbv where someone was talking with Urindanger, one of the best NL players who beats $300/$600. In the thread the player he's talking to asks him about how he came up. Urindanger tells him he started at $0.01/$0.02 and the skill he's best at is bankroll management.

Worth a read: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/54...danger-198934/


Play4Keeps please learn to multi quote.

I agree. It's just a better understanding of the fundamentals and when to apply them.

I do agree with the original statement though that the top tier players do hold back a certain level of info, there is no "magic formula" that is locked up behind a sealed vault.

At the highest stakes most players have a pretty solid game and very few leaks so it comes down to who can adjust to their opponents the best.


The other thing that separates them is they know how to apply ideas better than anyone else. Whoever originally said knowledge is power... I think that person is an idiot. Applicability is power. Knowledge without the ability to apply it is worthless.

No need to troll.

I thought the story got across a valid point that anything worth learning takes time and you improve a little every day until you have a solid basis of the fundamentals.

No need to troll.

according to wiki it was francis bacon. "Francis Bacon was an English philosopher, statesman, scientist, jurist, orator, essayist, and author." Pretty sure he wasn't an idiot.


I was serious, dgi's stories are entertaining lol. He should write a book on constructing analogies

And op's enthusiasm is fake and tilting that or he's a nerd and we should bully him after school

Thanks, I'm sure he wasn't an idiot. I just think the applicability idea applies better.

Sorry, just sounded trollish.

I don't think he's fake, I just don't think he has any idea of how poker works because he's new and to an outsider it doesn't seem like there's much to it. That's why I posted my original comment.

yea youre right he's def underestimating it but I'm sure that was all of us at one point lmao, though the fact that he's scoping out 300/600 when he's yet to even beat 1/2 is pretty lol.

Since this wasn't mentioned yet op should know that seat selection is probably one of the most profitable concepts and the higher you get the more important it becomes, it gets to the point where some high stakes players dont even play unless there is a weak player at the table and the closer you are to their left the better.

Also op I know you want to play live but I strongly suggest you start online, its a much faster learning process.

What are you doing?

To clarify again, I understand the magnitude of the learning curve and you guys seem to cry when you see someone that isn't following the path you took to get where you are but I honestly just wanted to know about high stakes regardless of how much I know about strategy and the fundamentals because all of that is a given, I'm truly confident in saying that I can get there. So I just wanted to know beforehand. Lol

I learned live.



I didn't discover poker until 2011.


I've beat 1/2 live, and am currently beating 2/5 live. Just built a big enough br this year to play 1/2/5 plo and am beating it but lol variance/samplesize so we'll see.

I'm not crushing high stakes yet but I am beating the game.

Saying that my answer was f#&$@ng awesome.

Play4Keeps: sorry for not multi quoting lol


Also vulture - the reason everyone suggest online is because your can play so many more hands and get experience so much faster.

Live is so slow because you're only playing 1 table. But you can get so many more hands in per hour online.

Starting out it's better to stick to 1 table but once you get the basics down, just getting in hands and ironing out the details is better to play 4/10/20 tables at a time.

I'm going to play online but would you suggest real money as it adds more realism to my play or fake money so I can make more mistakes?

I'm only playing online for a lil bit to rinse out any mistakes and fix all the leaks in my game that I can, coupled with training videos and books (everyone underrates books but I have been sucking out a lot of info from them that makes a lot of sense to me)

Ultimately I want to play live because it's more physical and atmospheric, the emotions are more real, its extremely social, the action is at a slower pace which allows me to think for a while about how I want to play a hand, you can also see a lot of emotional leakage from other players and it's more of a psychological warfare. And I feel cool.

I'm not "crying because I see someone that isn't following the path I took" . In fact I had a thread in my earlier days where I got shunned just like you did rn because of my goals (which jftr were much more realistic) but I didn't take offense to it. Instead I used it as motivation to prove everyone wrong then went back to that thread and rubbed it in their face, and surprisingly everyone ignored (I wonder why).

Believe me we are not here to crush your dreams because we feel threatened by an up and coming poker pro or just because we enjoy it. You'll find that this forum is helpful as a whole and most people actually try to help others improve their game. You must understand that the vast majority of people in this thread study this game very hard and have a lot of experience so when we see someone who has close to no experience in poker starting a thread like "I want to play 300/600 when I have yet to even beat 1/2" we feel the need to knock some sense into them.

Poker always seems a lot easier to an outsider than it really is. And as far as your goals go at least you have the confidence which is good and I'm rooting for you, but I have a feeling youre in for a rude awakening.

anyways pm when youre in Macau

It is hard to take you seriously when you ask something like this

You're last little comment might be sarcastic but I actually will.

I know I have to start at the bottom like everyone else but why should that cloud my ultimate vision, realism is relative to your own abilities and you have to remember, behind everyone's screen is an actual person and no two people are alike, I'm just saying to not make judgements based on my lack of experience and the fact the you've seen a thousand other newbzlolz tell you they're going to be pro.

I'm not striving to one day be a pro, in fact I want to remain lowkey. I want to be able to hunt the weakest players out, isolate them and take their money, and I just see the different stakes as profit margin levels. Please don't cry as I am heeding your advice.

I support your goal and its good to strive for the top but you'll cross that bridge when (and if) you get to it. You can't expect to ask absurd questions then get offended when someone pokes some fun at you.

What youre doing is the same thing as if someone like myself who has never played a game of water polo in my life goes onto a water polo forum and asks how I can join my national water polo team.

also you keep saying "dont cry" which hints at a slight bit of tiltiness which isn't a good sign...

OP,
Just go to your local casino, apply your knowledge to crush the 1/2 game and go from there. It's that simple.
After a couple of sessions, you will probably come back here and ask reasonable questions.

I think it'll take more than a couple of sessions before op asks something reasonable

Honestly what are you doing? Bringing up my tilt is called projection and is psychologically asserting that you in fact may be getting slightly emotional, there would be no other reason to explain why you're still on my thread with no more advice to give but petty comments, I have understood everything everyone has said and in fact your analogy is quite ugly.

An improved version tailored to what my actual question is would be 'hey I find water polo beautiful what is the highest echelon you can reach in this game'

Now don't come up with a witty response because this thread is going on too much of a tangent, and it is shadowing the advice I'm getting. If you have more advice I'd love for you to pour your heart out but if not, cry me a river