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 06-15-2012, 04:22 AM #1 grinder     Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: multitabling live Posts: 421 Is this a call or a raise? 1/2 live game. UTG makes it 6. UTG+1 throws in 2 red (\$5) chips. Is this a call of 6 or a raise to 10? If you have evidence to back up your answer it'd be much appreciated. I'm still arguing with someone about this.
 06-15-2012, 04:33 AM #2 journeyman     Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: BURRR, Canada Posts: 279 Re: Is this a call or a raise? its a call
 06-15-2012, 04:39 AM #3 centurion   Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 190 Re: Is this a call or a raise? Call unless he states raise.
 06-15-2012, 06:21 AM #4 veteran     Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Polarizing my folding range Posts: 3,499 Re: Is this a call or a raise? Why would he need to state raise? He's put enough in the pot to make the legal minimum raise.
 06-15-2012, 06:28 AM #5 Pooh-Bah     Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Sitting out Posts: 4,425 If he'd put in one chip without stating raise it would be a call. If he'd put in multiple chips less than a min raise without stating raise it would be a call. But putting multiple chips in to at least a legal min raise is a raise unless he stated call.
 06-15-2012, 06:33 AM #6 Carpal \'Tunnel     Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Here. Bad Posts: 34,417 Good Posts: 8,160 Blinds 1,2 he puts in 6 so a raise of 4. Next guy calls the blind 2, the raise of 4 and then min raises 4 more = 10
 06-15-2012, 06:37 AM #7 veteran     Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Polarizing my folding range Posts: 3,499 Re: Is this a call or a raise? Also, I think the guys in Home Poker would be able to quote 100 sections of RRoP to answer this.
06-15-2012, 06:49 AM   #8
Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Sitting out
Posts: 4,425
Re: Is this a call or a raise?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by TheDefiniteArticle Also, I think the guys in Home Poker would be able to quote 100 sections of RRoP to answer this.
Robert's Rules of Poker:
Quote:
 14. ...To protect your right to raise, you should either declare your intention verbally or place the proper amount of chips into the pot. Putting a full bet plus a half-bet or more into the pot is considered to be the same as announcing a raise, and the raise must be completed. (This does not apply in the use of a single chip of greater value.) 15. If you put a single chip in the pot that is larger than the bet, but do not announce a raise, you are assumed to have only called.
I got it slightly wrong - if you put in multiple chips at least equal to a full bet plus half a bet it is considered a raise if you don't announce otherwise.

 06-15-2012, 07:34 AM #9 should be called sevenfour     Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: lewaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Posts: 36,751 Re: Is this a call or a raise? this is a raise
 06-15-2012, 01:53 PM #10 grinder     Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: multitabling live Posts: 421 Re: Is this a call or a raise? Thank you very much for your answers!
06-15-2012, 03:27 PM   #11

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Superstitious and triskaidekaphobic
Posts: 9,953
Re: Is this a call or a raise?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by TheDefiniteArticle Why would he need to state raise? He's put enough in the pot to make the legal minimum raise.
Because his action is ambiguous. 1 chip wouldn't be enough to call so if he wants to call he would put in the same amount.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by gothninja If he'd put in one chip without stating raise it would be a call. If he'd put in multiple chips less than a min raise without stating raise it would be a call. But putting multiple chips in to at least a legal min raise is a raise unless he stated call.
The problem is that 1 chip isn't enough to call.

This is a call unless he states raise and it is so for the same reason as the oversized chip rule. In order to avoid confusion you have to declare raise otherwise it's a call.

06-15-2012, 05:09 PM   #12
old hand

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Rhode (not an) Island
Posts: 1,654
Re: Is this a call or a raise?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by A.Ertbjerg Because his action is ambiguous. 1 chip wouldn't be enough to call so if he wants to call he would put in the same amount. The problem is that 1 chip isn't enough to call. This is a call unless he states raise and it is so for the same reason as the oversized chip rule. In order to avoid confusion you have to declare raise otherwise it's a call.
\$25 chips play on 1-2nl tables. If he'd put out a \$25 chip without saying anything, it'd be a call. Here, he's put out multiple chips, and the value he put out is enough to represent the call plus at least half of the minimum raise, therefore it's a minimum raise. A card room would have to have a specific rule that raises must be announced verbally, to justify ruling the way you think they should.

Edit: actually now that I think about it some more, A.Ertbjerg is right in that this is usually ruled a call. I've seen this scenario play out countless times at Foxwoods: someone raises to \$7 (standard raise for TAG regs in the room) and someone behind puts in 2 red chips. This is always understood to be a call, even though it represents the original bet plus at least half of a minimum raise.

Last edited by Freewill1978; 06-15-2012 at 05:22 PM.

 06-15-2012, 05:14 PM #13 Seriously, 13 is bad     Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Superstitious and triskaidekaphobic Posts: 9,953 Re: Is this a call or a raise? You are ignoring that the one \$5 chip isn't enough to call. How should the player call then? Or rather why does he need to clarify that he is calling rather than clarify that he is raising? In other scenarios it is a call unless he clarifies he is raising.
06-15-2012, 05:23 PM   #14
old hand

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Rhode (not an) Island
Posts: 1,654
Re: Is this a call or a raise?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by A.Ertbjerg You are ignoring that the one \$5 chip isn't enough to call. How should the player call then? Or rather why does he need to clarify that he is calling rather than clarify that he is raising? In other scenarios it is a call unless he clarifies he is raising.
You're right, see my edit of my post.

06-16-2012, 01:50 AM   #15
Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 19,326
Re: Is this a call or a raise?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by luckfactor 1/2 live game. UTG makes it 6. UTG+1 throws in 2 red (\$5) chips. Is this a call of 6 or a raise to 10? If you have evidence to back up your answer it'd be much appreciated. I'm still arguing with someone about this.

My understanding of the rules is that this is a raise ... unless otherwise announced.

In any event I wouldn't act until it had been sorted out and it was known what it was.

But try this forum:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/202/mortar-brick/

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