if u wanna make 100 an hour.. ya, obv its tough

but if u want 10-20 an hour.. very doable in the usa sng scene (9mans or don for sure)

just depends on what u need to survive

Maybe I'm not paying attention on Bovada. On FTP I could start 4 $30 9-man SNGs in a span of 5 minutes. I don't see that as possible on Bovada, but maybe I've been impatient.

It always seems like I have to mix buy-ins and structures to get 4 going within 15 minutes.

But I'm OK now playing cash, so no biggie.

ur not gonna get tons of 30s volume on bv

u get a few 20s 50s etc..

but w 10-15% roi's that lots have.. it adds up

my buddy regs $50 dons all day (gets about 50-70 games a day, 6mans so 8 game hour avg) and lil over 10% roi... that's $40 an hourish

so not makin millions.. but there money for sure

usa guys get less games, but great rois

gl

I agree with Jay, you just have to study / work harder than the next guy. You can definitely beat NL100 online if you work hard on your game.

If you say you can't improve then it's like saying that you're just as good as Phil Ivey (or any other top pro for that matter). If you're not at Ivey's level yet then it means there's room for improvement.

If you improve then you can definitely beat online medium stakes.

ya.. if it were easy... then it wouldn't be, cause everyone would do it

but.. there is money to be made

do me n my friends study tons etc.. hell ya

the hardest part of poker really.... is the mental side, whether its brm, handling bad beats, tilt, studying.. etc

its not for everyone that's for sure

kurn...

10s u can run all day n night.... 20s 50s 30s... u can sit for while sometimes

u cant reg "only 50s" unless its dons

9mans.. u gotta multi stake...

or bomb 10s all day n night, low stress, high roi

gl

Cash works better with my schedule. I'm not a full time player. Maybe 2 1/2 hours 3 or 4 week nights and more time on the weekends. The easy availability on FTP and 'Stars made it easier to put in more volume on that schedule.

I'm comfortable with what I get to play now for cash online, butI'm playing less online. I do a bit better with some juicy (though sporadic) private games to add to my online earnings.

cool..

gl

+1.

There were many times, while suffering downswings/bad beats, I wished that I were void of emotion . I think those that stay the course and do very well in poker are those that can almost robotically analyze situations and realize that they played a hand(s) correctly despite losing moneys, and not really trip about it. I could do this most of the time. But I would be lying if I said I could do this every time, because I could not. There were times that the beats would pile on and on and on, and perhaps at times when I was more emotionally invested than I "should have" been (due to whatever reasons--some of which having nothing even to do with poker). This is where a poker pro really earns his/her money and is ultimately pushed to the wall in terms of career challenges imo. I don't miss that feeling. Despite how many times I told myself that I "got it in good", whilst losing say 4-5 consecutive big all ins, it wasn't always easy to put on a smiley face and be cheery around my family after those days. In fact it was down right hard! I wasn't chewing anybody out, but I wasn't really happy either, and everybody knew it. You can't fake happiness. I challenged myself to shrug off the bad runs and be happy, but that is MUCH easier said than done. I realize others handle these "dark times", which are an inevitable part of poker, better and with relative ease, but imho these people are the exception rather than the rule. The human element of poker is exceedingly difficult to overcome--for years on end, anyway. This is why bots make so much more sense!

Poker is a fascinating and intricate game. I love infinite level of skill associated with it. In many ways I think poker is more difficult to master than chess. Nonetheless I believe that poker is best when played as a hobby or on the side, either for additional income and/or for the "love of the game." To rely on poker as one's sole source of income can be a highly tedious endeavor.

*I love the infinite levels of skill....

There is always a pecking order in poker. All regs are not created equal. This is why the game will still remain profitable even if fish completely dry up. There are still tons of fish around though. You just need to work a little bit harder to find them.

But if you are paying for power and internet (assuming you are living in a Western style country), then is all you are looking to do be surviving? you could cancel at least the internet and put that into food and it will help. Keeping the power may be a good idea depending on where you are located and the temperatures there.

EDIT: Never mind,

Ofc. All this is true too. But it's MUCH more difficult to make say 50k/year now than it was 7-10 years ago (grinding online). There are far less fish, the regs are better, and the volume of games on US sites is terrible. And the fact that so many sites today are loaded with skilled players just makes the fish that do exist die off quicker. In '04 there was an incessant revolving supply of fish, and I mean REALLY bad fish, that would sit at my table. Now I have to wait much longer for the fish, and am sometimes forced to playing the less than great regs, all of which severely cuts into your hourly rate, bb/100, income, or whatever you want to call it. Can you still make $100k/year grinding today? Most def. I suspect you could make $1 mil/year grinding if you are in that uber high upper echelon of players. But it's like trying to be a Grandmaster in chess. Obv doable, but incredibly competitive. Most of even the most dedicated souls won't make it. It's a harsh truth, but it is a truth. To achieve consistent 6 figure+ income in (online) poker you will have to work much, much harder, and have greater skill than the vast majority of regs. IMO only a very small %age of people will be able to sustain 6 figure income year in, year out, grinding...at least in the US, in this current state of poker. Have nary a clue what Stars and/or Tilt are like, or any other site outside the US. But Stars, in the US, 7+ years ago....not at all unreasonable to achieve 6 figure income. The sheer volume of games (cash, SNGs and MTTs), the vast number of fish, etc... Them were the days, and how dearly do I miss it.

If you are an elite player at mid-stakes+, I assume (in perfect ignorance as I don't play these stakes) that there will always be money for you.

However, at micro stakes, thinking that you can make money by beating both the regs and the rake is self-delusion.

Is it safe to say that it's easier to make money playing sng's now than cash games? Cash games seem to be where most of the heavy competition is these days.

That's not sure. In cash games I'd say you can have a higher edge over the fishes than in SNGs because of deeper stack play.

I think cash game is probably more demanding, but also more rewarding.

ok that was what I was thinking. SnG's it didn't take long for me to establish a good winrate in the micros over a subtantial sample size... whereas cash games it's taking a lot longer to gain such an edge, but I can imagine that the edge you have against fish is greater in cash games once you establish it

ya .. you can still have high rois and make good hourly in sngs ... even usa

the main difference really is:

sngs u can make $10-15 an hour pretty easy with small bankroll (600-1000)

cash game u need a much bigger roll for those #s... (and a lil more skill imo)

gl

side note:

(he also posted it in goals/challenges section If u wanna look it up)

a buddy of mine recently quit his job as a paramedic ... he makes more playin $50 dons on bovada

$27 an hour paramedic....... $40 an hour poker

granted he was playin full time hours... tough grind in dons for sure

but.. if u really want it... its there

gl

didnt he abandon his PG&C

The games are still extremely beatable, and I don't see that ever changing. You just have to work/study hard.

Winrates of 5 bb/100 are still possible at mid stakes.

Cash games seem harder even at the microstakes theres people mass multi tabling, and when the fish arrive theres always 3-4 regs waiting to pull his pants down, and then hes gone.

But alot of the SNGs available now arent deepstack at all, and are basically just shovefests and crapshoots.

I can see there being more regs with the increase in popularity of the game but wouldnt this mean there are also more fish looking to make a quick buck?

I dont have first hand experience so this is pure speculation but I would assume that with the emergence of the game on tv there will be a lot of people that try their hands but never really work on their game. Baseball is huge but it doesnt mean you cant find a ton of people playing baseball for fun who arent good at all. This is basically my reasoning.

Many of the total fish are playing playmoney and using pokerschool and watching coaching vids. Even at the lowest stakes, you are getting nits. You need whales.