Hey.
This spot rarely shows up in 6-max. How much should we call vs 5x open in SB? I think in BB we can flat wider since we are closing the action.
I also think this spot is very frequent in live games, where open raise sizes are bigger.
So, the pros and cons of calling vs 5x raise??
How do we play 66-77 here?
Vs regs I would 3-bet more, but let's talk about flatting here.

2 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 90 BB (VPIP: 19.25, PFR: 14.15, 3Bet Preflop: 5.44, Hands: 5,976)
BTN: 91.87 BB (VPIP: 57.81, PFR: 14.06, 3Bet Preflop: 3.85, Hands: 67)
Hero (SB): 125.95 BB
BB: 163.4 BB (VPIP: 23.91, PFR: 17.87, 3Bet Preflop: 7.59, Hands: 3,154)
UTG: 102.78 BB (VPIP: 25.05, PFR: 16.74, 3Bet Preflop: 7.62, Hands: 4,204)
MP: 111.62 BB (VPIP: 27.94, PFR: 21.35, 3Bet Preflop: 8.75, Hands: 4,785)

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T J

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 5 BB, Hero calls 4.5 BB, fold

Flop: (11 BB, 2 players) 7 Q 2
Hero checks, BTN bets 5 BB, fold

BTN wins 15.45 BB

Although you've only got 60 hands against BTN, VPIP is more than half of all hands dealt.

Personally I'd flat and donk on the flop, or flat and float.

Apples and oranges comparing 6 max online and live play. You'll almost never see a live player with these stats, let alone be at a table of them.

Larger opening sizes make me want to 3b or fold more and call less oop

Since pfr is large whale I'd want to call more and 3b less junk

probably still 3bing here most of time, but with 90bb stack i might not and just call -- this is a spot where i'd base my decision off BB and not btn

Do open raise sizes become smaller in late positions at live games?

Idea of this thread is that we always face this big 5x sizing and we're not sure what to do.
I guess 3-bet or fold is good then, with more flatting in the BB.
Villain in this hand was a fish however, which makes it interesting, but prob similar rules apply?

5x is more risky to open, so we can fold a ton in the SB right? And not be in positional disadvantage postflop


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'So, the pros and cons of calling vs 5x raise??'

There's the possibility BB will 3bet and you'll be playing J high otf [2/3s of the time] oop without the betting lead having already committed 5 bbs. That's the first con I can think of.

I'd fold preflop but I think it's close. I'd probably call for 4x.

what you wrote doesn't make a shred of sense, did you mistake "and" for "or"?

as for the main question itt, it's a pretty trivial fold, unless you have detailed reads on the villian and a crystal clear idea how to perfectly exploit them - and if you had those you wouldn't be posting in the beginners forum

Pretty much my thoughts. Even against fish, flatting in the SB is going to make it hard to make money, and this sizing is just too big. Pure set-mines with 77/66 might be OK if BB rarely squeezes and one of the villains is unable to fold top pair when you make a set.

I generally just don't fold vs whales. If guy had like a 60bb or less I'd pry fold.

Coming from a mostly live background, the size of the opening bet doesn't do much to determine whether I play*, but bet size in combination with effective stack size helps determine how I play.

*unless bets sizing is a known tell for the villain in question. So unless you have reason to believe that a 5x open from BTN is a powerful hand, bet size alone isn't going to stop me from playing suited-connected Broadways against such a loose player.

If I win this hand I expect it will be with something better than TPGK, unless BTN has a high fold to 3-bet 9rare with such a high VPIP). Therefore, and considering that villain's stack is <100BB, I'm more likely to flat than 3-bet. I'm actually hoping BB will come along to increase my odds.

When the flop misses us, with 3 to a different suit and an overcard, I'm done, unless BTN is the sort who can be pushed off easily.

Yup, blinds don't matter in live poker blind defense isn't apart of adding to ur winrate it just sucks too play OOP esp in a 9 full-ring game where you play MW pots every hand.

Sizing is a bit weird live right cause the SPR get's way smaller postflop with 100bb stacks given the 4-5x raise nature as opposed to a 2.5x-3x.

Again 3!ing depends on a lot of factors in a live 9-full ring game setting but pretty similar i treat sb + bb in live poker basically as sb just 3! a linear range or take the highest EV line if calling is highest EV line and will lose less money/make more money i call, for example why would i 3! 99 or 88 in sb vs a btn open with multiple limps in front etc...

Uh not by much it bet sizing doesn't make a difference tho in live poker neither do the blinds even if you are playing like 5/10.

Thing is in live poker there are no implications/consequences of being a loose passive so even if you flat a wide number of hands no 1 is going to 3! squeeze you and the fact that you are playing 9-handed means there are more players left behind you to squeeze but seriously not a problem haha

Playing OOP MW sucks so yeah i would call way more in LP regardless of having 1bb or 0.5bb in the pot then i would in the blinds.

Also 4x-5x raises are basically normal raises in live poker, something extreme would be like 10x which does happen lol

His VPIP is ~57%. But his PFR is ~14% and he open raised to 5 big blinds. I don't know what his button steal percentage is.


I'd probably fold pre-flop, but I think it's pretty close.