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 - Bankroll - Suggest games to play?  - Bankroll - Suggest games to play?

09-02-2014 , 12:19 PM
Hi 2+2, (apologise with my English as i am Deaf - BSL is my first language)

I am going to deposit $50 onto Pokerstars soon and have fresh start again. I want to play and improve my MTT games however i can't afford to risk $50 on MTT since i think $50 isn't really good bankroll for MTT yet because i need 150x MTT buy-ins so average tourney on going every day are like $1.50 average x 150 = $225

Should i play Sat to win MTT seat or something? or Play SNGs? Im not good at SNGs
 - Bankroll - Suggest games to play? Quote
09-02-2014 , 12:43 PM
There is the hot and hotter $0.55c, I think, every night on stars around about 9 ish UK time. I sometimes play it when Im board and tilted at the cash tables lol.
I'v made it into the money several times so it must be super soft as I hardly ever play MTT's.
Also there are loads of small buy in SNG's but what I'd do is just study and play one form and stick with it.

What ever you do go for GL.
 - Bankroll - Suggest games to play? Quote
09-02-2014 , 01:01 PM
not sure why you think mtt's would be out of your roll? there's at least one scheduled <$1 turbo every hour, plenty of tourneys with capped entries, or you could just play the $0.5/180 turbos
 - Bankroll - Suggest games to play? Quote
09-02-2014 , 02:09 PM
Yeah, sngs with less than $1 entry are probably your best bet.
 - Bankroll - Suggest games to play? Quote
09-02-2014 , 02:20 PM
Why are you bad at SNGs?
 - Bankroll - Suggest games to play? Quote
09-02-2014 , 02:48 PM
I suppose i will try and build up my bankroll, I'll be playing MTT with $0.55 or less capped 500 but its start i guess and hope i will successful in theses games

Any tips/advice? What books or anything to help and improve my games for micro MTT and Small for in the future

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMSS
Why are you bad at SNGs?
I didn't say i was bad at it lol, Just need to study more in theses type of games because i heard its different from MTTs and what i mean is that am not strong player at SNG
 - Bankroll - Suggest games to play? Quote
09-03-2014 , 11:17 AM
Play 1.5 18mans and the 1 dollar 45mans first. Soft as scheiße. The startegy isn't all that different except in sngs you start with 75BBs and MTTs are at least 100BB starting stacks.
 - Bankroll - Suggest games to play? Quote
09-03-2014 , 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Woods
...
I am going to deposit $50 onto Pokerstars soon...
OK, so you are going to deposit $50. Just because you deposit $50 doesn't mean you will have a bankroll of $50. A bankroll is something used by winning players to absorb variance. If you are not a winning player, the $50 is either an entertainment budget, or a training budget.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Woods
...
and have fresh start again.
OK, sounds like you are not a winning player, so you shouldn't think of the $50 as a bankroll.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Woods
I want to play and improve my MTT games ...
OK, so it sounds like your $50 is a training budget. You should try to look for the opportunity that provides the most learning for a given amount of money. Generally you learn in proportion to the number of hands you play. You'll get the most play by playing at the lowest real money stakes. While you might learn more per hand at slightly higher stakes, it won't be enough to offset the higher cost of play and the risk of an earlier bust-out due to higher variance.

If your goal is to become good at MTTs then you should probably play tournaments, not cash games. Play whichever has the lowest cash buyin. If you are not good at single table SnGs, then you are probably not good at MTTs either, so don't let that be a deterrent from playing STTs. Tournaments have a different dynamic than cash games, due to the increasing blind levels.

Start at 8, 9 or 10-man tables. You'll see more hands per buy-in. You'll play a lower portion of the hands you see, but you should be learning even when you are not in the hand. For this reason do not play Zoom or any other variant where you leave the table as soon as you fold. You need to build up your observation skills, and get used to thinking about the other players and developing reads. Also, avoid Turbo or faster. You need time to think and absorb what you have learned.

Avoid Fifty50s, as the structure tends to decrease the motivation to finish first, and increase the motivation to just hang on, which is not necessarily the best mindset to have in other tournaments. I'd also suggest you avoid shoot-outs, rebuys and bounty tournaments, because the format distorts play. If they are available at micro stakes, try to play some deepstack tournaments, to increase your playing time.

Continue to play lowest buy-in tournaments until you are consistently winning at those stakes, or when your budget is exhausted. Move up when you are consistently winning and you have a bankroll more than large enough to avoid busting at the next level up, assuming 50% of the winrate you had at the previous level. Move back down if your bankroll drops to the minimum needed to avoid busting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Woods
however i can't afford to risk $50 on MTT since i think $50 isn't really good bankroll for MTT yet because i need 150x MTT buy-ins so average tourney on going every day are like $1.50 average x 150 = $225
150 MTT buyins might be a rough guideline for an average winning player*, but the actual bankroll requirement depends on the player's winrate and the variance he experiences. The variance (and hence bankroll requirement) will tend to increase with player pool size. 150 BIs is not enough for a marginal MTT winner, and no bankroll is large enough to avoid busting if you are not a winning player. We use guidelines like 150BI because it can take a very long time (perhaps longer than a lifetime) to play enough MTTs to be confident of one's winrate.

*Please note that "the average winning player" is not the same thing as "the average player". The average player is a losing player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Woods
Should i play Sat to win MTT seat or something? or Play SNGs? Im not good at SNGs
If you are usually losing at the satellite level, you should play non-satellites instead. If you are winning, but do not have the bankroll to move up, then playing satellites can make sense.
 - Bankroll - Suggest games to play? Quote
09-03-2014 , 12:34 PM
I am really appreciate it for taking your time to reply with long messages. Really helps and explained alot as well got me to re-think, I'll do what you said

Last of couple bankroll i busted because i didn't really follow my bankroll management so that's reason and of course i was having fun and decide to take it more serious and use bankroll management and play the level i can afford to avoid going broke this time,

Is there any books, online, tools software or whatever you recommend to become better player for MTTs?
 - Bankroll - Suggest games to play? Quote
09-03-2014 , 11:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Woods
Last of couple bankroll i busted because i didn't really follow my bankroll management so that's reason and of course i was having fun...
Are you sure you busted because you weren't following proper bankroll management? Could it be that you busted because you weren't playing winning poker while coincidentally you also were not following proper bankroll management?

Proper bankroll management is not enough to prevent you from going bust. Playing winning poker is not enough to prevent you from going bust. You must do both at the same time.

To be certain that it was improper bankroll management that caused you to go bust, you must be certain that you are a winning player. How many tournaments have your played? Is that enough to be confident you are a winner?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Woods
and decide to take it more serious and use bankroll management and play the level i can afford to avoid going broke this time,
I'm stressing all of the above because I want you to avoid the mistaken idea that if you just play with enough buyins you won't go bust.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Woods
Is there any books, online, tools software or whatever you recommend to become better player for MTTs?
I hope others will answer this part because my book resources are betting a bit old: Harrington, Moshman and Shaw.

If you are going to take online play seriously, you should have a HUD and analysis tool, like Poker Tracker or Hold'Em Manager.

Online, I hear the 2+2 forums are a pretty good place to start.
 - Bankroll - Suggest games to play? Quote

      
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