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3-betting AA/KK with deep stacks 3-betting AA/KK with deep stacks

05-12-2017 , 10:21 PM
When you re-raise pre-flop with AA or KK and the stacks are deep, and only get called, how do you handle post-flop play? You essentially have told your opponent you have aces or kings, or possibly ace-king. Meanwhile they could have any pair, or a looser opponent might have other things as well.


How can you play well when they know what you have, and you are blind?
3-betting AA/KK with deep stacks Quote
05-13-2017 , 01:41 AM
You should have a 3bet range which is dynamic and usually wider than KK+. It should also be balanced so will include some hands which are not super premiums e.g. small suited aces or suited connectors.

Edit

Also, are you talking about live play? Because low stakes live players are usually terrible, so they will put you on KK and then call you down with AJ on J high board, because they 'couldn't fold there.'
3-betting AA/KK with deep stacks Quote
05-13-2017 , 02:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by longspring
When you re-raise pre-flop with AA or KK and the stacks are deep, and only get called, how do you handle post-flop play? You essentially have told your opponent you have aces or kings, or possibly ace-king.
I'm one of the tighter players in the games I regularly play, but even I 3-bet a lot wider than KK+, AK, even from early positions. When stacks are deep, SPR is big and you should be playing a lot more hands than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by longspring
Meanwhile they could have any pair, or a looser opponent might have other things as well.


How can you play well when they know what you have, and you are blind?
Make it harder for them to know what you have by using a wider and more balanced 3-bet range.

This is a strange game where 3-bet ranges are so narrow but 3-bet calling ranges are so wide. Don't you think a calling range should be narrower than the range needed to make the raise? (Look up the "gap concept".)
3-betting AA/KK with deep stacks Quote
05-13-2017 , 02:37 AM
I suspect deep stack play is heavily dependent on your playing environment and as BQ features posters who play all over the place, you might get heavily variable advice here.

I play 25nlz, so my advice is based on that.

Reg V Reg or Reg V Unknown eff stack > 200bb, oop 3bet bluffing is simply spew, you'll get called preflop and floated flop everytime. So oop 3bets will be linear and strong. IP you can balance a little bit with good speccy hands, but just be aware you going to get called waaaayyyy more whatever you do.

4bets and more deep are basically AA v KK, so don't be the guy who stacks off preflop 200bb with KK.

One thing above all else...deep stack play, you want position its a huge factor. So preflop you really got to think it through before you get into the pot.

Post flop deep stack play is a book all by itself. A one line piece of advice I've seen dozens of times is:

"In a deep stack pot, don't build a big pot out of position" (unless you know you are way ahead and staying way ahead).

Finally deep stack spots are uncommon, so I wouldn't worry about individual reads/stats on your deep stack preflop ranges - stat convergence factors would mean villain would need thousands and thousands of hands on you to draw any conclusions.

Good regs that understand deep stack play, will know what's going on. Poor regs will just look at your raw 3bet stat and apply that.

Being IP against a poor reg in a deep stack spot is thing of great beauty Unfortunately it does not happen often enough
3-betting AA/KK with deep stacks Quote
05-13-2017 , 09:14 AM
Quote:
Reg V Reg or Reg V Unknown eff stack > 200bb, oop 3bet bluffing is simply spew, you'll get called preflop and floated flop everytime.
use bigger sizing, like waaay bigger, increase sizings until opponents start reacting similarly as to std 3bets 100bb deep nothing wrong with going smh like 2,5->16bb. Going with linear 3bets only will completely screw over your board coverage.
3-betting AA/KK with deep stacks Quote
05-13-2017 , 09:31 AM
Quote:
Going with linear 3bets only will completely screw over your board coverage.
It won't screw mine in the slightest. This is exactly why I made the comment about playing environment.

At 25nlz on stars, I don't take high variance deep stack spots OOP against regs, because there is absolutely no need to do so. There are plenty of low variance spots to exploit.

My tactic OOP deep stack to an aggressive reg (esp one betting big). Easy.

Fold and move on.

IP deep stack totally different thing...call and watch them screw it up.

Not everyone will agree...but hey, it works for me.

Granted you might not have the luxury of just picking low variance spots at 200nlz, so that might change things....I'll let you know if I ever get there.

PS The bigger you bet the more you strengthen villains continuation range. Playing deep stack OOP to a strong range, I'll pass thanks.

Last edited by Fatboy54; 05-13-2017 at 09:42 AM.
3-betting AA/KK with deep stacks Quote
05-13-2017 , 11:27 AM
Be more cautious with one pair when stacks are deep. This means less betting and more checking.

To stop your range being so face up, widen your 3-betting range in the first place, as others mentioned above. e.g. If KK and AA were your only value 3-bets in position, you might decide to introduce some balance by using A5s, KQs and 76s as your "bluffs".
3-betting AA/KK with deep stacks Quote
05-13-2017 , 01:40 PM
If you think they put you on AA/KK/AK, on most flops, you want them to think you have AK. This may mean not c-betting the flop. So, ask yourself how your opponent thinks you would play AK different from AA/KK.
3-betting AA/KK with deep stacks Quote

      
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