I found it to be a useful FR rule don't stack off 100bb pre against a reg or nit who covers you without AA/KK. Reason is, the widest range you can usually expect them to get it in with is QQ/AK and either QQ or AK is a dog to that range. This is at Stars BTW.

Now obviously there are numerous exceptions: maniacs (ldo we go much lighter again), aggro-fish, shortstackers, someone you just sucked out on who open shoves the next hand, villain just joined table and open shoves first hand and so on.

I've started playing 6-max and I don't really have a feel for what the reg or nit stack off ranges are yet. It takes a long time for 4-bet stats to converge so we can only really extrapolate from 3-bet stats.

Obviously the correct approach is to play the villain yadda yadda and this is all true.

However, if you agree with the premise of not getting it in pre with QQ/AK in FR against a suspected reggy type, would you widen that range at 6-max? I'm talking when you don't have a lot of info to go on, say they are 100bb deep, they have opened twice over 15 hands, no 3-bet info, nothing out of line. I guess the question is, do you automatically open your stack off range just because it's 6-max and people are more likely to go in lighter than FR?

no, because I'm a nit and i hate variance. At my level there are enough easier ways to win money that I don't feel the need to try to embrace the all-in pre war.

By the way, which situation are you talking about, a 4/5bet shove? on your part or when villain does it?

Say villain opens in MP, you 3-bet with QQ, he 4-bets and you feel this is a fold or shove decision. Or you open and villain shoves. Any reasonably standard situation when you have a choice of getting it in or folding.

I ask in turn what range are you comfortable getting it in with? Have you got sufficient evidence that his range is beating you or a flip on QQ? If you aren't getting in there then 6 max may not be on the regulars card for you unless you know hes a nit and only runs flips and AA KK. what are you waiting for to get it in the middle in 6 max??

FWIW, a "standard" 3bet-5bet or 4bet-call range for 6max is AK/QQ+. Just be aware that making your own stack-off range tighter than that doesn't mean you profit.

So basically you are asking:

Are villains at 6max ready to stack off with AK,AQ,JJ,KQ,... etc so I can profitably value shove my queens?

I'm still a novice, but from my limited experience every player pool is different. 6max 2nl at stars.com is different from 6max 2nl at stars.fr which is different from party.com FR 2nl of 2010.

I.e in order to answer your question you need to play a lot with the player pool you are up against. Asking others about ``how villains stack off at 6max'' is too general. I.e you need to have a general read on the players at your site and stake, and only you can acquire it through playing with them.

(that is, if you don't have specific reads on THAT particular villain).

i have shoved AK countless times in 5nl 6 max and been called by like 22, 44, AJ, A8s, K3s etc etc etc all hands that QQ has crushed. I dont think you can fear getting it all in pre with QQ at uNL

Thanks for replies all.

Zumby,

So selecting a range that beats QQ+/AK may not be the most profitable for the following reasons:

1. Lost opportunity because being an obvious 4-bet nit means turning cards face-up against thinking opponents
2. There is already money in the middle, so while say QQ may be a dog to villain’s range, if he already has half his stack in the pot, calling becomes +EV.

Is my thinking correct and are there other reasons I’ve missed? Aside from the various reasons I listed in my opening post.

Yeah, that or I could state the site, stake and game format to ask other players' impressions of the same player pool...oh wait that's what I did.

I don't see you mentioning the player pool you are playing against. Saying ``6max'' is not enough.

I also stated "Stars" and "2NL"...I did miss saying "No Limit Texas Hold 'Em" though, but hopefully we can take that as read.

oh missed it, my bad .

Yeah these are the sorts of things, though the exact EV is going to depend on a bunch of factors like stack sizes, pot size, villains 3bet/4bet/5bet bluff frequency etc. It's not always actually +EV to get AK/QQ all-in pre, but it's almost never a huge mistake. Basically if you ever have fold equity it's fine to get these in.

it depends

I'm not sure about this line zumby, could you please elaborate? Do you mean if we get villain to fold QQ/AK against our QQ/AK then our shove becomes EV?