Hey folks,

So, the casino I play at primarily offers 1/2 (along with 2/5 but I try to avoid that since I'm awful at poker). The maximum buy-in in $200 (100 BBs). Is there an optimal strategy for this? It seems like most hands usually result in whole stacks going in.

The type of people who play are what you would expect: Usually 6 or 7 people limp every single hand.

My strategy for this is 1) fold a lot and 2) raise with better hands and 3) reraise with hands I would normally open with since everybody is playing ATC.

Is this optimal strategy with constant limpers? I tried the strategy of limping all the time along with everyone else and just trying to smash flops with garbage hands but instead my stack eventually dwindles away. And yet, this seems to work for other people and they constantly flop full houses, flushes, and trips with trash like J7o.

What feels like what is happening is I will sit there for 3 or so hours, finally get a decent hand, raise or reraise, whiff the flop, and end up folding to a shove on the flop. Or, I will have a monster hand like QQ or KK and end up losing to AA. This has happened in the last three sessions I played in where I sat there and played very few hands and end up losing my last $120 of my stack to something silly like KK into AA or having AK, flopping TPTK, and my opponent flopping two pair with trash like T7s, calling my flop and turn bet, then shoving the river after I have committed too much of my stack to not fold. Maybe my bet sizing is just way off? Most of the time, people raise pre-flop for about $12 to $16. This is quite laughable considering it is 1/2 and proper sizing should be more like $6 but nobody plays correctly at 1/2 so I just roll with it knowing that stacks are always going in if it ever gets to the river.

Basically, I felt like I was getting a handle on the game by being conservative and playing only good hands and being aggressive with those hands but I am finding that this seems to just not work. I am lightning money on fire left and right to people who I think are quite terrible (which in turn means I am significantly worse than I thought in my opinion).

One thing that I found is that when I try to establish ranges for my opponents, it is always WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY off. I can never pin down my opponent's range when they call $12 pre flop and a $16 post flop bet. Is that a drawing type hand? Is that a two pair hand? Is that a set? Is that top pair with a better kicker? Who knows?! They play literally every hand. No telling what they have. What is the correct thing to do here? Just ignore their hand range and shovel money into the pot when I hit?

you can play TAG and iso large with big hands to reduce variance and still capitalize on your biggest edge which is people not folding weak hands

you can limp as much as you can get away with just because you get to play more hands, and hopefully hit a big hand and capitalize on your biggest edge which is people not folding weak hands

you can iso large with big hands and also limp in whenever you can get away with it

all in all, as long as you don't go full ****** postflop, you can get away with a lot preflop

btw, when people are there to gamble and not to fold, you're going to experience a lot of variance one way or another. get used to it

you seem to have a lot ideas about what is "correct" way to play poker, and most of them are wrong. For example, in a loose game where nobody folds, you should open for 5-8bb, and opening for 3bb is just terrible.

I recommend folding a lot and betting strong hands.

Be more value heavy in certain spots where you think villain's are going to be over-calling (trust me there are going to be plenty of spots)

Yeah. Just lit another $300 on fire. zZz I don't understand how you are ever supposed to put your opponent on **** like J8 and smashing your AK when he turns two pair. This literally happens 100% of the time. Raise with good hands and get punished. Flop two pair hands and opponent calls all the way and rivers a set. Flop a straight and opponents rivers a flush. Raise with QQ and always get reraised 100% of the time and they always have KK or AA. I feel like you should never raise and never bet. Opponents will always have something better no matter what you are playing.

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Then why do you play?

I suck. I know.

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Part of being a winning poker player is being brutally honest with yourself. Until you stop thinking that things happen "all the time," you'll have no chance of ever being a winning player.

Playing hint: If people are only 3 betting with AA and KK, then you fold when you are 3bet unless you have AA. EZ game.

You definitely should stick to $1/2 live games. You sound tilted to be honest.

You should be happy that your table is limping garbage hands. It's a lot better than dealing with regs that raise a lot of hands (LAGs that can play post flop).

Just today at a live cash game, I was playing standard TAG and had AQs.. flop was Q23hh. I bet and the other dude shoves his remaining 35 big blinds and I snap call and his T9hh obviously gets there on the river.

Was I mad or tilted? NOPE. I got it in good. That's all that you can hope for against loose players.

learn to play properly and dont think you can make it a simple solution to win. it doesnt work that way.

you obviously use past results to think about things and that isnt good and you probably lose because of poor play after you are outflopped.

You have to fold, think of it this way if you don't make any calling mistakes but your opp. make calling mistakes in the same spot that's how you profit (recripocality).

Focus on maximal exploitation and just know that whatever it is folding, calling, or betting that you are maximally exploiting in each spot you gain a **** ton of EV which in my book is worth way more then chips being shipped ur way.

No it doesn't.

Instead of worrying about stuff you can't fix, like what cards get dealt and what people call with, work on your game. Right now you sound like a whiny little bitch, that's fine if you want to throw yourself with a pity party, but it's not going to help you get better.

You admit that you suck at poker. If you suck at poker, then losing should be expected and should not cause you to be so upset, regardless of whether you started with a good hand preflop or not. If you want to stop losing, then stop sucking. In order to stop sucking you need to put in work. This means more hours at the table and more hours away from the table studying.

unfortunately dream crusher crushed your dream and he is right

You should just learn to play poker first then go to the casino. Unless you play at Hollywood in Ohio In that case def play $2-$5

tip for you; Play super tight and super aggressive with your open raises and go ahead and limp some hands.

Limping hands like 98s, 44, and A5s pre-flop will allow you to see flops with good implied odds at a minimal investment and will keep you away from so many spots where you have top pair top kicker and someone drills two pair on you.
HOWEVER:
The down side to limping some hands is that your opponent's can iso raise you and c-bet and barrel you off your capped open limping range (oh, wait, they never do that?.. Hmm...
There is at least one more big problem that stops you from open raising huge with your premiums and limping in with speculative hands; basically your open raising range is going to be way too strong and face up and, therefor, you'll never get any action with your pre-flop raising range, right?????? right...?..
I mean, it's not as if your opponents will watch you open limp and fold hands for two hours and then call a 6x open raise when they have KJs, KQ, AJo, or QJs right???...
Right???


Wait a second..
I think i got it.

I think i figured out how to beat awful players at live low stakes NLH cash games.

Seriously, it's that easy.

Open raise your premium hands so big that J6s can't possibly call you and make money no matter how hard his range is to read and no matter how bad you are at folding TPTK pre-flop.
Open raise your premiums huge, really big... NO ONE FOLDS KQ in live cash games right? Like, EVER, so open AQ+, and JJ to like 6xbb and you'll still get one or two callers and you'll have most of your opponent's calls dominated which makes it REAL REAL hard to lose money

open limp your small pairs, suited connectors, suited broadways, Axs, and try to stack a fish or two when you smash a board.

the good but not super premium hands like TT, 99, KQs, AQo, AJs can be raised from late position and you can isolate limpers with them and expect to dominate plenty of the limp call ranges that give you action.

I used to NEVER open limp in live cash games and I still don't do it in late position but if I'm sitting in a game like the one you describe I'm gonna do some limping.

Give it a go.. (not the total bull **** hands like J7o or even semi bad hands like 86s, just the best of the best speculative hands.

limp 22-88, A2s-ATs, 76s-T9s (for suited connectors) and your suited broadways that are not premium
You'll have a much better idea where these hands stand post flop in MW pots than your opponents will with their bull **** 95s and J7o and their random A6o and K7s, K8o stuff. You will have implied odds and they will have the reverse implied odds

when you have a hand like AK that really doesn't play that well against stuff like J8s that's drawing super live against it but DOES play extreemely well against hands like KQ, AQ, AJ, KJ, KTs, and Axs that fish will just NEVER fold then go ahead and bomb in a big ass raise to like $13.00 in early position, $10+$2/limper in Mid pos, and $8+$2/limper in late position.


You just tell me if this plan doesn't make money. It will. I mean unless you really punt off some money post flop or your opponents all grow brains out of nowhere, it will work.

Good luck
watch my Youtube videos, Navonod on NLH. I cover a lot of these ideas on many of the vids I've done (all free of course)

Not so sure I can top Donovan .. and yes, play 2/5 at Hollywood in OH as it's a very nice game!!

I could go on and on here but for now I'm only going to look at one aspect of your posts. You indicate "how can I put these guys on XxZx?" as a stumbling block. Well it takes 2 to tango in poker and I really think you need to look at what range your opponents are putting you on and your betting patterns tied to 'your' range.

If you are 'allowing' your opponents to play perfectly against you based on your range and betting patterns then eventually you will get snapped off.

I also think you need to look at players more from a style standpoint than a range of holdings. Yes, these are tied together to some degree ... know 'how' your opponents play and what position you have (or don't have) on them during certain situations.

1) Card Players - face value players, TP lovers, married to their hands
2) Gamblers - always looking to 'get it in' even in marginal spots
3) Poker Players - Situationally aware the hand and position, stealers, math based play

Each of these styles can also have tight or loose ranges, especially at 1-2. Taylor your play in each hand based not only their image, but YOUR image to them.

The biggest comment to remember ... If you got your money in good then you played well with a disappointing result. Dealing with that could be your biggest hurdle.

Are you telling me that you don't want a player to call you with J8s from the BB for $16 when you only have $120 behind?

Gotta go .. but I think either you are an easy read or you are playing with a bunch of gamblers and hopefully variance will help you out soon. GL

uh oh,
i feel like i'm at a disadvantage here. i don't know who you are but I was smart enough to use my real first name here.
You play at Hollywood?
I've moved to Cuyahoga Falls and split my live sessions between Toledo and Cleveland but I'm sure we have to have played together.

WHO IS THIS????
Sam?

Nah, he's pretty sure he's got the game wired, he wouldn't be on a forum. But you know Sam don't you? And Cappy?
Tell them Donovan says hello.

I am with you brother! 1/2 live can be maddening when variance is running against you. I have a very difficult time putting people on ranges in this type of game because people will play ATC so that is ok! A strategy I am comfortable with is something I extracted from Jonathan Little's book Small Stakes Hold'em. He played a number of sessions of 1/2 at Borgata. A major leak in the 1/2 players is their raise size. Its the only stake where people raise a ridiculous amount pre flop like as much at 15-20x at times. Now if you have AA and people are willing to call 20x than do that. However, raising to $6 - $7 will keep you from bleeding too much. Of course you will pick up a ton of callers but when you hit the flop well you will take it down most of the time. Most players will miss or make weak made hands. Most of these players are bad enough to bet hard when they have it so you know when to get away from your hand. On the flip side when people are raising to $12-$15, it is a major leak for players to be calling. People will pay almost any price to see a flop. So I raise big with my best hands like AK and JJ-AA. Besides that I will raise $6 - $8 with hands like ATo-AQo, some broadway hands in later position, pocket pairs, suited connectors and some suited gappers and other connectors. This will cut down on your variance and build a nice pot for you when you hit with 87s or 44 for a set. Curious to hear your response and hope this post finds you well brother!

So much here .. This is always a 3 beer discussion in person ..

Yes, raise sizes are a leak .. and that's how players get snapped off in live 1/2. Although your point that players will 'call anything' to play a hand is quite valid I think that modifying your raise size to your hand strength is a good way to open yourself up against the better/reg players.

I use 3 opening raise sizes ($7, $11 and $16) and mix them up all the time in hopes that my hand strength is less detectable. This can depend on position, player types and the number of limpers as well.

You will find some posters here that say 1/2 players aren't smart enough to follow along and that may be true in some larger casino settings. I play in rooms where I would consider 60-70% of the players as regs and the last thing you want to do is become predicable!

Play poker ... be aware of your situation and adjust accordingly. If I open for $7 with AA and get 6 callers, then I don't go nuts on the Flop and am much more willing to fold to aggression.

A very tight guy on my right (after 3 hours of play) 'finally' complained that I raise every time he limps. I told him that based on his limping range I 'couldn't' allow him to see cheap Flops and if he flatted my raise then I knew what he had. He was basically set mining (TT-22) and AK/AQ. He said "But you can't always have a hand?" I told him I didn't need a hand, I just needed to know what he had before the Flop came out.

He only raises with JJ+ so I can play perfectly against him. He opened and I flatted with my 99 and Flopped a set on a 894 board. He went for value by betting 50% of the pot on Flop, Turn and River before I raised him for the rest of his stack and he left shaking his head, vowing once again to 'never' play a pot with me again.

I'm a little off track here, but If you play the way you are describing above I will exploit you after about 90 minutes for sure.

Again, in a very large casino based setting this technique may fly better than in my 'situations' that I play in. My advice is always 'play the game' not your cards. Don't give away any consistent information that the savy opponent can use against you.

Last pick here ... Your bet size doesn't cut down on your variance one bit. Your bet size will actually make the game smaller from an odds point of view and may result in more stacking off by opponents in marginal spots ... which is what you want. What you are referring to is the fact that when opponents do stack off that they sometimes win. Whereas in a 'deeper' game/situation they might fold to your bet on the Flop or Turn and thus you don't need to consider variance since there is no showdown. I agree with what I think you are trying to say, just not how you said it!! GL

I appreciate the feedback! I guess what I'm trying to say is I play an exploitable strategy until someone tries to exploit me. Of course regs (and myself) can easily exploit this raising tendency. Most fish are just playing their cards and limping to see a flop. I play at the PA casinos which are usually soft at 1/2.

I am a bit surprised you told a player what you were doing on how to beat him. I don't understand the dynamic of the situation but if it worked for you then go for it!

Be blessed and thank you!

You say don't give away any information, but you told villain about his limping range? *scratches head*
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I always see it in casinos, people talking strategy at the cash tables. It boggles my mind. I never talk strategy at the table, but yet I always see people telling me their thought process from preflop all the way to the river.

You need to read a couple of the books that are specifically for low stakes no limit.

Got suggestions? I have read Harrington's books but I know they are out dated.

This is always an interesting conversation with regs. I can go both ways in the conversation. On the one hand we really don't want to teach our opponents what our strategy is against them, nor what it should be against us. But I also feel an impulse to teach as well. In my area the player pool is limited so I don't really want to discourage players from coming on a regular basis either. I think most players need/want a motivation to keep coming back.

I've had a few players who wanted some discussions away from the table or try to sit next to me so we can chat during a session. Both of these guys are whales and enjoy the game much more now that they have some additional information to work with from a strategy viewpoint.

As far as the exact conversation noted above. I've had the same conversation with the same guy at least 12 times in the last 10 years with no change in the result. His play has reduced at least 70% from the 'early years' due to the frustration of his results .. thus $$$ is missing from the table.

Your *scratches head* is exactly where I want my opponents to be against me. With the advice I may give one player I am more than willing to go about things the opposite way against another opponent who I think may be paying attention. That is a wonderful part of the game to me.

So to your comment ... I agree ... but following to the letter of the law has been a problem for me GL