This is a hand from yesterday that I think I played poorly because I didn’t get enough value from it. For you guys this is probably a very basic hand. What I’d really like to know is whether my analysis is correct.

Context: I sat down at a 1/2 table with a 125bb stack and saw it dwindle to 18bb in a few hours. On one of my first few hands I lost 30bb with 2nd two pair to a set. Also, I made a mistake with KK c-betting OOP HU on an A77 board (who calls that?) and lost another 20bb. Anyway, I managed to claw most of my way back. Villain was a good player overall. He limped in or raised pre-flop about a third of his hands, bet often as the pre-flop aggressor but also wasn't averse to calling. I can’t recall him ever raising, shoving, or bluffing. On showdown he rarely had less than TP (again, remarkable on these tables). He was disciplined. He got sucked out a few times by a poor player who made unlikely draws to two pair or a flush. When he started tilting he got up and disappeared for a half hour. When he returned, he kept his cool and didn’t make emotional mistakes against this player.

Play: I was holding JhJs with a 110bb stack and raised 5bb UTG. At this table, 5bb seemed to be enough as I had been consistently getting 3 callers or less. Villain to my immediate left calls (he had me covered), and so did someone in MP, a loose relatively weak older guy. Flop comes AdJc6d. I was not concerned about the guy in MP. I had a vague idea that villain had a range of AK-AT, A9-A2s, suited broadway cards, and any pocket pair. But I didn’t put that knowledge to good use. Instead, I got greedy and checked intending to raise. As expected villain bet 7.5bb or 1/2 of the pot. Guy in MP folded. When I raised 3x his bet, villain folded. My profit was 17.5bb, much less than the 7.5:1 odds I need for a set (especially such a strong one).

Essentially, the check-raise made him fold hands he might have called me with on later streets.

Let’s assume instead of check-raising on the flop I had bet half the pot and villain called.
Here’s how I would break down his range:
AK, AQ, AT: 36 hands
AJ: 3 hands
A9-A2s excepting A6: 28 hands
A6s: 3 hands
KJ, QJ, JT: 12 hands
QQ,KK: 12 hands
66,AA: 6 hands
Total: 100 hands. I was beating everything but 3 of them.

Of the cards that could come, an A wouldn’t matter much because a set already beats me and from his point of view it improves a lot of my range, too. Jd is the best card for me. There are only 3 suited diamond hands that beat me, so diamond cards aren’t so bad. The K or the Q (6 more of those) can go either way because they also improve his range. But they only beat me if he’s holding KK/QQ or QT/KT. The rest of the cards have only a slight chance of improving his range, but still not enough to beat me.

I probably should have bet 2/3 the pot or 10bb on the flop. 25bb now in the pot. Then bet 2/3 the pot again on the turn. 57bb now in the pot. Not sure about the river, though. Betting the pot might scare him, but if I checked there is no guarantee he would bet. I don't think check-raising on the turn is a good idea because so little of his range would call, and a lot of what does beats me.

If he raised or shoved on the flop or turn, I’d have to reassess depending on the cards. On an A, I’d probably have to call because there are so many combos that give him trips. I would probably have to fold to his aggression on any diamond, 6, K, or Q because I never saw him bluff once the entire session.

You're overthinking. You flopped a set. You shouldn't be looking for subtle ways to milk a little extra value or worse yet, save money the rare times you're beat.

Your one and only goal should be to play for stacks. This time you got unlucky in that when you x/r'd, he probably had the bottom of his betting range there.

That being said, I probably bet the flop vs a typical 1/2 live table, but your line is fine, too.

Bet the flop. Any ace or FD is going to call. A x/r is far more powerful a move. I don't expect on a two tone board TP to risk the flop going through to give the FD a free card.

Thanks, guys. I'm having fun exploring ranges and how to apply them. Maybe that's why I'm overthinking this. But it helps to have some kind of validation. So far no one is screaming at me that I've got it all wrong ;-)

Here's a side question. I kind of felt bad for villain because he got the bad end of the stick a few times in a row and it halved his considerable stack. I also respected how he handled it. Do you ever let a respect and/or sympathy for someone affect how hard you go at them in a hand? I'm not suggesting I x/r'ed this guy so he wouldn't lose more money. I x/r'ed him trying to get my stack in. But I won't deny I have empathy for others when combined with respect, and I'm wondering how that fits in to the poker table - if at all.

Betting or check-raising middle set are both fine plans. Flopping middle set on an ace high board is usually a hugely profitable spot. If villain folded to your check-raise, he probably didn't have much, so you were unlikely to win much money from him by taking another line.

What you wrote runs very much in line with what I thought when I saw the A on the flop. If I had flopped a T-high board or less, I wouldn't have given check-raising a second thought. But this is also why I am disappointed with the result.

The situation has made me think a bit more about set-mining. I wouldn't say raising pre-flop with JJ is set-mining, but especially with lower pairs it has to pay off, and that requires 7.5:1 on average.

I'm going to let you in on a dirty secret of live play. Most players think set mining is profitable. Most players lose money with their non-premium pairs when their plan is to hit the set or fold.

So mid and baby pairs - and I'm going to throw in mid suited connectors here too because I don't know what else to do with them - are good for 3betting light and raising pre-flop against players you think have a good chance of folding against a barrel or two?

Raising with JJ first in is not set mining. If you had aces, would you call it set mining?

How in the world do you not top off?

Lol because I decided before I sat down that I wouldn't. That was my stack for the day, and if it bled to nothing I was ready to walk away and think over what happened. I think it's a good learning spot, too, especially later on for tournament play.

I was waiting for a good LP hand to 3bet with. Nothing was coming. I ended up with Tc9c in HJ, raised 5bb, got 2 callers and flopped Ac7cXc (can't remember the 3rd card). Very lucky there, but it got me to about 40bb. I 3bet light and won another 7bb. Then I had As3s again in LP and was up against the older guy I mentioned in the OP. I don't remember the flop but there was a 3 and it was less than K high. There was one spade. He checked, I cbet and got called. On the turn another spade came. Now I had 14 outs so I bet again, this time all-in, hoping he would fold. Villain hemmed and hawed but eventually called me with KK (an overpair). On the river I got another spade. That's when I got to where I was at the time of the OP.

don't ever go playing live without at least 5 buy ins on you. Not being able to rebuy multiple times will: make you feel uncomfortable (if your goal is having fun) and play bad (if your goal is making money).

being a scared money nit will make both you and your opponents miserable, as it is really uncomfortable to watch someone bleed out money he apparently cant afford to lose

If you want a good learning spot for tournaments I suggest playing in one. Trying to learn short-stacked tourney play in a cash game is the literal definition of setting money on fire.

This hand is one where I bet the flop, bet turn, sized to make sure I can shove river and then shove river. I do that on most runouts. Stacked a guy on a similar board for a nice 170bbs the other day. I agree with venice on reasons for betting instead of x/r. LLSNL villains don't like folding top pair but if you x/r, they find it easier.

As said above, top up, taking no reserves really hobbles your ability to play. It's better to burn through 1 buyin playing fullstack and then decide to leave than it is to sit there with 1 buyin dwindling down to nothing. Reason is, say you get down to 20bb and then double up with AA, kind of a waste. I suggest take 2 x 100bb buyins to start, it's easy to go through both though as that's poker.

Taking only the money you are planned, being prepared to lose it if it happens, is a good thing BTW so keep that discipline.

Thanks for this sound advice. This is what I see other players do. I am trying to enforce discipline on myself because I know from experience all it takes is one slip-up and a whole stack can go down the drain. Yesterday I had a good session. The longest yet, 8 hours. But the point is, one of the mistakes I made was discipline related. I had recently folded two hands in quick succession, one on the flop (with QQ in UTG to the guy in EP-2 who called my pre-flop raise along with 3 others then bet the pot after I checked on a 9-high unpaired board) and another on the turn to a big raise in a decent pot.

I had 99 in EP and villain was a decent older player. Flop came 78X two tone. I bet and he called. Turn came a 9. I bet and he called. The river came a T and he raised me. I was sure I was beat but he was giving me 4:1 odds so I called anyway and sure enough he had the 6. The point is, I was sure I was beat and should have folded but didn't because I was sick of folding ;-)

Edit: That line of play sure doesn't make him look decent lol. I will add that he had the flush draw with Ad6d.

I have a bankroll and am not afraid to lose the money. I do recognize that fear is a big enemy in poker. It's more a comfort thing. I am okay with only playing a few hours and walking away and mulling over the hands because I think I get more from it. I played 8 hours yesterday and the hands all sort of blur together, so in some ways I get less out of it in terms of being able to analyze.

I do appreciate the advice, though. And I won't deny there is an emotional effect when my stack is low and I know I could be leaving soon.

Wow, okay, maybe I should stop arguing and listen for a minute ;-) Someone made a point about doubling up with a short stack vs a normal stack. That makes sense, too. I didn't realize I was making such a big mistake by only playing with 1 stack each session.

One of the problems with playing short stacked, or only bringing one buy-in, or just playing under-rolled in general, is that you end up playing with scared money and thus can't make proper decisions.

There will always arise +EV situations where you will get stacked 40% of the time. You have to take those odds or you won't become a winner.

"meh. What's one measly buy-in" needs to be your attitude when you get it in good and lose. That goes double if you play MTTs.

I just wanted to thank everyone who pointed out how important it is to top off during cash games. I've had a few long sessions since then and it's really had a positive effect. 1) I decide when I leave, not my stack, and play is a lot more fun, and 2) as previously pointed out, although uncommon there are many situations that require a good sized stack to take advantage of. And those are the ones that have the biggest potential to be hugely profitable. Now when I see someone tighten up with a small stack, I know what to look out for ;-)

I think it's great that a bunch of people with advanced poker skills are willing to help out us beginners. Most of the younger people at HE tables have studied the game so the competition is tighter. Any leg up is valuable.