You don't have to conspire or pay illegal bribes to the staff in order to set the dice any way you want. The occasional tip is enough. If you hit the back wall with both dice, you can set them all day.

Certain sets will roll certain numbers more often if the shooter is able to throw the dice on-axis. Whether anyone is capable of achieving an advantage this way is open to debate. Whether significant numbers of craps players can be trained to the point of having an advantage is open to debate.

Pretty sure the point he's making is nobody ever bothers anybody about any dice set, tips or no.

so if I don't tip, that won't be enough? What's the minimum amount and frequency of occasional tips in order to be able to set the dice any way I want?

And this still brings me back to my main question - if you don't tip enough and they don't allow you to set the dice any way you want - which dice sets are disallowed?

Unless you are a total douche who never tips, and as long as you can hit the back wall with both dice, you can set the dice any way you want, all day. Nearly all dice setters are no better than random rollers, so the house isn't that interested. I have never heard of any dice shooter being allowed to set the dice this way but not that way.

Do your own experiment and report back here.

so which is it, 1 or 2?

What if i am a total douche who never tips - I can't set the dice any way I want?

If you've never heard of any dice shooter not being allowed to set the dice the way he wants, why do you clarify your remarks as only applying to non-douchy people who tip? If you've never heard of it happening to anyone, wouldnt that include douchy nontippers too?

I meant that they are less likely to make me feel like I need to just hurry up and throw.
I never have seen a dealer say you can't use a particular set, but I have seen them say "just throw the dice" to a person(not me) that was taking a long time fiddling with some set.

I am pretty quick, because always use the hardway set and I tip a normal reasonable amount which keeps me and the dealers happy.

Any set that doesn't break casino rules is fine and allowed regardless of tips. That is... provided they don't slow the game down to piss off dealers, stickmen, boxmen, pit boss, etc. this is where the tipping can buy time. A person that you just gave money to is less likely to be super critical about everything you do.

which sets break casino rules?

RollWave - there are no disallowed dice sets. What people are saying is that if you are slowing the game down by setting the dice, and the dealers aren't getting anything from you, they *may* give you less lattitude than everyone else and pressure you to hurry up. There is no defined set of parameters for this. It depends on how they perceive you, their mood, etc... all of which can be affected by tipping/non-tipping, like most other things in the world.

Dealing dice for 14 years, I can say this is pretty spot on. Technically we don't get paid by the roll but in essence more rolls=more chances to call winning bets (either to you, or the guy who takes your place when you leave) so we like to keep the game moving at a decent pace. If you can set the number you want quickly go right ahead, but if it takes 20-30 seconds we're gonna say something. Now if you're tipping nicely I usually make my boxman or floorman do it.

As to why dealers want tips to be bet, the real answer is so that other players see the tip, and maybe it will encourage them to tip too especially when they see I'm giving the tipper A+ service (instead of my normal A service of course!)

The following behavior with the dice will get you spoken to:

More than one hand on the dice
Removing the dice from the tub or from the view of the dealers
Tossing the dice way up high (above boxman's eye level)
Sliding the dice
Not hitting the back wall nearly all the time
Banging the dice
Rubbing the dice against the felt so as to cause friction

The following behavior will generally be tolerated:

Throwing one or more dice off the table by accident (I am terrible at this and have never heard a word)
Taking your boobs out of your shirt and rubbing the dice against your aureoles before throwing them

Anyone else seem to get overpaid by dealers when tipping well? Also dealers tend not to take all my losers down when tipping in Vegas. Me and my friends seem to think tipping is a +ev play.

agreed

i have seen dealers forget to take down a come bet for me when a 7 is rolled on the come out & also not take down a hard way when the number is rolled easy

this has usually happened when i am on a hot streak and am making numerous bets for the "boys" on the point and other numbers

Unless you bet the dark side if you're on a hot streak the table is probably on a hot streak and hopping with action. Perhaps the mistakes have more to do with that than the tips. The more things there are to keep track of the easier it is to miss one.

I don't think it's a mistake, when I play and make a few tips early almost every time I get a free bet some where and get that look for the dealers. Then I start to tip big 40-50 an hour and always get twice that back, especially down town at the nugget. I had the 6 and 8 for 24 and was getting back an extra quarter almost every time. I think the floor man even saw it. So I tipped him as well. I find I get better tips not using a comp card. I counted 500 plus in over pays for me and buddy once in a 2 hour session probably tipped 200. Being know as a tipper is great and looking for the same dealers multiple days in a row helps too.

That can actually create a problem of perception -- I would advise against searching out your favorite dealers too aggressively. Move around, sample the games, and stop when you're comfortable -- don't make a beeline to your target.

This I would not mind so much as a player and many dealers would enjoy also

I probably tip too much but I only go to Vegas a few times per year.

Start off with just a dollar next to my pass line bet and announce "...the boys are on the line with me!..." Usually gets them on my side and the will help me out here and there.

If I start winning I'll yell "...the boys have shoes!..." and put odds with their pass line bet.

Last year the point was six so I put a two way hard six, dollar each and tell them when it hits we are going to parlay. Some of my other inside bets kept hitting so I pressed the hard six up to $3 each. It hits. "...PARLAY!!..." $30 hard six for me and one for the dealers. few rolls later, double threes! The cute asian stick girl gave me a big hug.

They loved me for a few precious minutes, which is all I really want anyway.

could you be more specific about this part? what do they help you out with? What help do they give you that they don't give to nontippers?

they'll point out that I don't have odds on my come bet if I forget, or that I need to make the odds on my 5/9 even, stuff like that. Just littler reminders that make the world a better place.

Not that I'm that big a player, and I know craps is even more -ev when tipping the dealers but I play to have fun, and when I win it's even funner.

I win at poker way more than I win at craps but when I compare the two poker can be so mind numbing boring sometimes it's not fun at all. Fold, fold, fold, wait for good cards in good position, raise pre-flop, c-bet TAG the **** out of the hand and get beat by K4 os. yippee.

the non tippers get largely ignored and no slack at all from the dealers. I've have them 'forget' to take my c&e bet a few times and pay me off more than they should have, was it because of tips? Maybe.

I think the best thing to do is to just pop a buck on top of the odds on 4-10, and 2 bucks on 5-9 -- when you are winning and the dealers are polite.

I may put them on a firepay for a buck if the casino has one. For the most part I don't bet hardways or C&E's for myself or the dealers. If you ever find yourself doing exceptionally well, a $5 pass line with single odds is good and gets their attention.

You shouldn't have to tip to get proper service and if I feel that's the way it's going I move on.

First off, never worry that a bet you make for the dealers will be considered miserly. It's really not the size of the bet,it's that the player is showing his appreciation for good service, friendliness and professionalism. If you bet for the dealers, they generally prefer low % bets like the pass line or $3 place bet on the point. While bets made for them in the "prop" area have high payouts, they seldom hit and dealers are loath to give toke money back to the house when they lose. If you do tip, and a situation comes up where the dealer has to make a choice between making the proper call or sort of cheating in your favor, they will make the proper call. They won't cheat for you. Integrity is paramount. They will give first class service, though, and hopefully make your session an enjoyable one.

Here's my advice: throw money in. Dollars, halves (if they have them), etc. Say you are appreciating what the dealer is doing for you, throw him a buck or two and just tell him to drop it. As a former dealer and now box, I'll grab that money and drop it. If they give the option to play it, I'll just grab It and drop it bc it's a guaranteed winner!

Also, if you're playing and stroking the dealers (pressing multiple bets after being paid, string bets, cross pressing, pressing to odd or improper amounts, asking for color on $25 in red, "turn me off", "turn me on"), throw the dealers more. You're the reason why the games get held up.

Twice this week -- and only twice -- I threw in a $10 "two way yo" ($5 each on eleven for me, and $5 for the dealers) and it hit both times.

Profit for me, $150.
The look on the dealers' faces, priceless.

$0 is the correct amount, look them in the eye and hand it to them directly.