As a side note, odds don't change. They are the same whether one spin or thousands. Maybe that was the confusion between expected return and odds.
By the way, heard a rumor that heavy vp players at south point casino had their cards pulled....in other words, 86'd. Any truth to that rumor?

Yea I heard that Bob Dancer was responsible for having the vp pros cards pulled..Dancer has been playing both sides for years and making money off of both sides(casinos/vp players) what a scumbag..

Further elaborate? What can he do to make money off players? Also why don't casinos just ban him?

Dancer makes money off of players by selling his vp strategies to them on his website. Casinos dont ban him because he works with them as a vp consultant. Its alot harder these days for a vp pro to make a living because of Dancer. Comps are less and paytables aren't as good as they were back in the early 00s.

I started playing on videopoker.com and for the first time I played Ultimate X 10 play DDB and JOB. I really enjoy playing this but I was wondering if it is the same in the casino as it is on this website.
I assume it is the same so I guess I was wondering what it costs to play it? if it is a quarter machine is it $1.25 x 10. I am assuming it is more since there are multipliers. My local JOB paytable is 8/5, would this game be the same and if so which is a better game to play. I assume the variance on ultimate X is huge but if you hit a Royal with any kind of multiplier that would obviously be huge. I can just image the thrill of getting dealt a 4 to a Royal while have a 8x multiplier on all lines.

Ultimate X is not my game right now. However, Far as I understand, you bet 5+5 each line to get the ultimate X feature...so in your 10 line 8/5 JOB example, $1.25 X 10 with feature is 50 units, or $25 per spin. Beware the game you mention has high variance and a 97.9% expected return...bring deep pockets.
What I like to do is glance at the game and see if someone left multipliers. Then I play one spin at 5 units a hand and run. Gives you a nice advantage.

That was going to be my next question. I wonder how often people will be dealt something decent and have tons of multipliers on the screen and then walk away. I will be at the casino tonight so I may just check it out.

if it is 5+5, wouldn't that be 100 units for $25. Hmmm even nickles would be above my level if those exist.

I played tonight. The best JOB we have is 8/5 but the ultimate X is 7/5. I decided to play anyways for fun. I am not sure how I feel about the game. I don't like that when you get dealt a high pair you lose money if you don't have any multipliers. I play 5 play for nickles so it was $2.50 a hand. I think I would rather play $0.50 single line. I did get dealt a 4 to a royal while I had a 11x on the screen. I bricked 4 hands and got a flush on a non multiplied hand. I played for about an hour and lost $100.

There was 1 bank of 5 machines and all 5 showed a cash out of $1100. I also looked at all games and did not see any multipliers left behind so I think someone already cleaned out the multipliers.

I played a lot of Ultimate X for me in Tunica on my trip last weekend. 8/5 JoB with Ult X was the best game they had left for quarters or less. And the g/f and I needed $400 coin-in to get 2 "free" buffets from the crappy buffet that took over paula deen. Also the new casino in Cape Girardeau, MO had 6/5 Bonus for as cheap as 2 cents, so I played a bit more of it there too.

http://www.vegasmessageboard.com/for...5&postcount=14

Experimented with my first "thought" playing VP session after reading a few sites. Developed a few strategy cards to help while playing, and felt like a crook. Read mixed reviews that these were allowed, just like BJ strategy cards? Anyhow, I ended up at a deuces wild quarter machine that was a 10/4...thought this aligned with the payouts I had written at the top...never realized what a difference 9/5 vs 10/4 was :0 Typed it in the calculator at home and I was at 94%???!! Anyhow, I can see why the payout is terrible, as the four of a kind that you hit a ton is pathetic. I also hit 3-4 royals+deuce. Question is, how many bets do you get up before leaving? Still reading this thread, but I was up $40-45, so about 35ish max bets...after realizing how bad the payouts probably were, I just said I'd play down to about even or get up $100 to call it quits, and use until then as practice. Pretty sad all of the games are **** in my area, except $1+ min bets for double bonus and bonus poker that I probably can't afford

when to quit is a personal decision. I always have a time limit that I play too. I set my alarm and when it goes off I try to quit. lol and boy do I mean try.

As for me...eh, I don't have that strict money stop wins/losses. I just tend to play for a couple hours mostly. Somewhere between 160-200 bets is probably a rough stop loss for me (i.e. $50 at nickels or $200 at quarters). If I'd win that much as well, I would consider quitting a little early, or slowing down to help preserve the win.

Written strategy cards are totally legal. Using a video poker app for strategy decisions while playing is technically illegal in most states. I've never heard of anyone being prosecuted for using one though.

And yeah, four of a kind is a fairly common hand in deuces, so that 5 for 1 payout is a big deal. You'll never find it outside of Vegas either. The "higher" paying deuces wild machines that have 4 for 1 for quads usually have 4 for 1 on a full house and 3 for 1 on a flush as well. Unfortunately for deuces, you usually have to check virtually all the payouts to compare the game.

And where was this at? Hollywood KS Speedway? I would almost guarantee you can find "Colorado Deuces" there (25/16/13/4/3/2 = 96.77%) at least. I know 6/5 Bonus exists there on the 100-play STP penny machine (97.13% w/STP and no minimum bet requirement) which is over two percent higher than that crappy 25/15/10/4/3/2 Deuces Wild. I can't remember what Deuces game was on the unit there though.

Ha, good to know...and this was actually a big West at Prairie Band (north of Topeka in Mayetta). Best I found was 8/5 JOB at the bar, but didn't have all of the paytables to compare...tons of double double bonus, triple bonus, x games that I didn't know how to play. Hollywood is actually where I play BJ at the most, so I will be scoping out the VP next. 96.77 sounds just as ****ty Think I will just look for the scattered 9/6 JOB...thought I remember playing those once with my dad. Guess I shouldn't worry about playing VP too seriously around these parts, huh? Man...why can't a guy get online poker+good pen BJ games+a decent VP game to get excited about lol

VPFree2 hints those games no longer exist. Hopefully they are wrong/out of date.

http://www.vpfree2.com/casino/prairie-band

And yeah, most of the midwest sucks for video poker. I'm just happy Hollywood St. Louis hasn't trashed what Harrah's left behind yet. I usually play 35/8/5 Bonus there (99.66%).

If the games have low expected returns in your area, there are two other ways you can make up for low ER's and even be positive.

One is progressives. Next time you go to the casino, check out the progressives and see if they, a., have them, and b., reach the break even point or at least close to it (make the game 100% return)...one example, quarter 8/5 Jacks or better, is a 97.3% return by itself, but if the royal progressive reaches $2166.50, your at 100% return. (You can get a nice list of break even points for many games on the wizard of odds site). For dollar games, just times by 4.

Another way is to find out what your slot club is worth. If it's good, say, 3 dollars cash back per $1,000 coin in, it's worth an extra .3 on your return...going back to the 8/5 JOB example, it would go from 97.3% to 97.6%...but on multiple point days, it can go up. If say, a 5x point day, it can go up to 98.8% for example.

Maybe this helps. But if you have to play these low ER games, just have fun with it. Or save up a roll and travel someplace with good ER's and take a whirl. The good news is, if your lucky and hit a royal, a royal is a royal no matter what the full house and flush pays.

Cheers

P.S. If it makes you feel any better, on my last 10 sessions of quarter Full Pay deuces wild (100.76%) return with a whopping .025% slot club cash-back, I have the play down pretty good and I'm down on the game about 500 dollars in the last 10 sessions. So ER isn't everything. Negative fluctuation sucks no matter what game you play.

When to stop playing?
For me, I bring a certain amount with me and a certain time amount as well. For example, on one game I play, I'll bring $400 in a quarter 10/6 single line ddb game with a progressive meter for a royal (don't salivate, the progressive meter crawls and the highest I've ever seen it is was $1,156 for the royal). I'll plan to play usually 2-4 hours max.
When I reach the 4 hours, I stop. If I run out of session bankroll, I stop. If I hit a royal, I usually don't play too much longer even though I know it doesn't matter. If I hit aces/with k, I usually keep playing for a while longer. That's about it on a typical session this example.
Not scientific or mathematical, but empirical and seems to work fairly well for me.
Would like to hear how others usually do it.

Thanks for the detailed response! I had the same issue with bj when I first started reading....bad games and requires more capital. I also wanted to include somethimg that I could be unbothered at. Was ecstatic when I saw for JOB u only needed 1.5x or 3x, whatever it is, the royal flush for bankroll. But I guess I need to seriously look more in depth to figure out what exactly is available in my area.

Second time playing at Hollywood, first time seriously. Made a few mistakes clicking too quickly. Just played 8/5 job since crowded and didnt have time to make a strategy card for other games. Got 650+ pts for a one hour session. Thought it was 5x multiplier but not sure. Threw in hundo and was down to 75 but got rush to 155...didnt quit and eventually went busto biggest sweat was four cadd royal and pat 4oak.

Question for rewards..... says 1 coin in is 1 pt for slots, 2 coin in per pt for vp. Then says 2000 pts for 5 dollars free slot play....that strictly slots or include vp? If not including then thats like .125 added return? Lastly, lady said they clear pts every six months so to level up u need to accrue all in a period...but the only extra benefits between level one and three are vip access at buffet, plyr serv, in itation to private events and parties, premium and comprd valet...sounds worthless?

Just wondering what you guys do whenever you get those four card royal draws..I generally like to wait 10 seconds before I press the draw button..I know it doesn't matter when you press it but do you guys tend to savior the four card royal draws or is it just another draw to you?

In the few times it comes up, I always wait a few seconds, more to make sure I definitely kept the right cards, a little to put in a quick prayer to the poker gods.

I wasnt playing on full speed at the time last night, but gotmone of these beauties in diamonds. I sat there for about five seconds sayin, "T of diamonds" a few times ovrer. Obviously bricked....as a noob you prolly cherish the draw. More regular players prolly relish in the draw while waiting on the attendant to bring them the money lol. Prolly dont want to lower the hands per hour by asian-peeling these draws like in baccart.

I just hold the 4 to a royal and draw to the royal as fast as possible. Makes the pain a bit quicker since I know I only have 1 in 47 to hit it. When I do, I'm usually in shock for a second, then smile, then thank the vp gods.

Yes. It does matter.

For a Class III VP machine, which most are, unless you are in some hick state that still has the bingo variety.


From: videopoker.com

The infamous Random Number Generator (RNG)

The key to understanding how legitimate, traditional Class III* video poker games work is understanding the role and function of an RNG. This refers to games like IGT's Game King (www.igt.com) and Triple-Play Poker (www.actiongaming.com).

The RNG is the hardest working device known, and it ensures a fair game every time. Its sole responsibility is to constantly shuffle the deck of 52 cards (or 53 in Joker Poker). This manic activity goes on and on UNTIL you hit the "deal" button. When you hit the deal button, the machine displays the 5 cards at the top of the deck at that precise moment. The RNG works all the time. Twenty-four hours a day. Three hundred and sixty-five days a year. Then it keeps on shuffling the remaining 47 cards (or 48 in Joker Poker) until you hit the deal button and the discarded slots are filled with whatever is at the top of the deck at that time.


With that said, I always prolong the usually inevitable agony by having the bartender, girlfriend or random playing next to me hit the button. More fun IMO, which is why I am playing anyway.

However, this has worked out for me. I flagged down a cleaning lady in Bossier City and told her I would give her $50 if she would hit this button and a Q appeared. BOOM! Fastest $50 I ever paid. She blessed me so many times I think I should be a saint by now.

Since it technically matters Im afraid to push the button right away b/c the card I need may not be there at that second..I know that sounds dumb but I feel its better to wait at least 5 seconds..nice to see that you know how the machines work but you still prolong the agony as well lol
@AADanielAA Im assuming your one of those guys that counts everytime you miss a four card royal draw and will get upset when you go past the probability of hitting it..or most likely you have run +ev enough at vp where you don't even have to start counting your misses..I have a friend who counts and he's gone 0-98 on 4 card royal draws...thats when you've gone beyond hating life regarding vp when you reach that point!

I don't hate life enough to start counting my missed 4 to a royal draws.
I figure when it's time to hit, it's time to hit and can't worry about what I cannot control. All I can do is make sure I hold the correct cards and draw. The rest is up to the vp gods.
Strangely enough, most of my royals in the last 6 months have been 2 cards to a royal draw, not 1 card to a royal. But whatever, we will take them whichever they come, yes?