Thread about video poker - Other Gambling Games Forum

Barbiaux · 05-22-2011, 05:27 PM

OK its me again. The crazy fool that is destined (dreaming) to beat the casino.

I did some google searches and read some websites about video poker to learn perfect strat but some of them seemed a little confusing to me. Does anyone have a link to a site that is easy to read to learn perfect strat. Also is there a simulator like the blackjack one that will tell you if you make a mistake. I know there are free sites to play VP on but I am referring to a sim like the blackjack one.

For those of you that play a lot of VP, what recommendations can you offer? If the machine doesn't hit quickly do you move or just feed it more and wait for the upswing? Today I was playing and stuck a $20 in and went through that in 3 min (1.25/hand) So I moved to the machine next to me, put a $20 in and played for 35 min on the same 20 before losing it. I was playing jack or better today. Do you play this game, or would you recommend another one? How often do you hit a royal, of course you could I guess play a long time without hitting one but from what I read part of the 99.54 edge is based on hitting a royal so if you never hit one then you will be down a good bit?

Neil S · 05-22-2011, 05:31 PM

Clearly the goal is to find the hot machines. Take lessons in dowsing.

Fergie72 · 05-22-2011, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barbiaux

OK its me again. The crazy fool that is destined (dreaming) to beat the casino.

I did some google searches and read some websites about video poker to learn perfect strat but some of them seemed a little confusing to me. Does anyone have a link to a site that is easy to read to learn perfect strat. Also is there a simulator like the blackjack one that will tell you if you make a mistake. I know there are free sites to play VP on but I am referring to a sim like the blackjack one.

For those of you that play a lot of VP, what recommendations can you offer? If the machine doesn't hit quickly do you move or just feed it more and wait for the upswing? Today I was playing and stuck a $20 in and went through that in 3 min (1.25/hand) So I moved to the machine next to me, put a $20 in and played for 35 min on the same 20 before losing it. I was playing jack or better today. Do you play this game, or would you recommend another one? How often do you hit a royal, of course you could I guess play a long time without hitting one but from what I read part of the 99.54 edge is based on hitting a royal so if you never hit one then you will be down a good bit?

You do not understand how the machines work if you are asking if one is "hitting".

Read and listen to all the info on this site before you put another penny in play.

https://www.progressivevp.com/

The radio show archives are very informative and entertaining.

Barbiaux · 05-22-2011, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fergie72

You do not understand how the machines work if you are asking if one is "hitting".

Read and listen to all the info on this site before you put another penny in play.

https://www.progressivevp.com/

The radio show archives are very informative and entertaining.

You are probably right that I don't fully understand these machines. That is why I posted the question on here. Thank you for the link, I have started to listen to one show and it is a good listen so far.

Tiresman · 05-22-2011, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barbiaux

OK its me again. The crazy fool that is destined (dreaming) to beat the casino.

I did some google searches and read some websites about video poker to learn perfect strat but some of them seemed a little confusing to me. Does anyone have a link to a site that is easy to read to learn perfect strat. Also is there a simulator like the blackjack one that will tell you if you make a mistake. I know there are free sites to play VP on but I am referring to a sim like the blackjack one.

For those of you that play a lot of VP, what recommendations can you offer? If the machine doesn't hit quickly do you move or just feed it more and wait for the upswing? Today I was playing and stuck a $20 in and went through that in 3 min (1.25/hand) So I moved to the machine next to me, put a $20 in and played for 35 min on the same 20 before losing it. I was playing jack or better today. Do you play this game, or would you recommend another one? How often do you hit a royal, of course you could I guess play a long time without hitting one but from what I read part of the 99.54 edge is based on hitting a royal so if you never hit one then you will be down a good bit?

http://wizardofodds.com/play/jacksorbetter/

Fergie72 · 05-22-2011, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barbiaux

You are probably right that I don't fully understand these machines. That is why I posted the question on here. Thank you for the link, I have started to listen to one show and it is a good listen so far.

Sorry if I sounded like I was trying to be a douche, that was not my intention.

Im glad you like the show so far. If you are serious about wanting to beat the casinos you should read Frank's book too. To give you an idea of what you are up against here is a quote from one of Bob Dancer's books.

"99% of the games in a casino favor the house, you have to be sharp enough to find that 1% that is +ev, and then have the discipline to play only it."

Ok, that was a horrible paraphrase but you get the idea.

Good luck!

Barbiaux · 05-22-2011, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fergie72

Sorry if I sounded like I was trying to be a douche, that was not my intention.

Im glad you like the show so far. If you are serious about wanting to beat the casinos you should read Frank's book too. To give you an idea of what you are up against here is a quote from one of Bob Dancer's books.

"99% of the games in a casino favor the house, you have to be sharp enough to find that 1% that is +ev, and then have the discipline to play only it."

Ok, that was a horrible paraphrase but you get the idea.

Good luck!

lol no prob, i didn't think you were partaking in douchebagery (not sure if I spelled that correct)

I have listened to 3 shows so far and on my 4th. One thing I am confused about is how he goes in with teams and wins. Am I accurate in my early thinking that a VP machine pays 99.584% so he goes in and plays one machine until the royal flush hits and then moves on to the next machine. The profit he makes is actually the money that other people already put into the machine -0.416% Maybe I have made my own conclusion on this but I did order Franks book already tonight. If my assumptions are correct how many hands could it take before the next royal to hit. Are we talking 6,000 ish and is there a formula for this or is each machine different. I know these are answered in the book but I just can't wait to receive it.

Fergie72 · 05-22-2011, 11:04 PM

A machine that just hit a royal is no more or less likely to hit another than a machine that hasnt hit one in 80,000 hands.

There is no such thing as a hot, cold or due machine.

Different vp games return different percentages. The game that pays 99.54% is full pay jacks or better, also called 9/6 JoB. This game is not +ev unless the casino loyalty program and or a promotion push it above 100% return.

An example of a game that returns over 100% is full pay deuces wild. It returns 100.76% and is profitable on its own. However, most casinos exclude the best machines from their loyalty programs because the pros would just hammer them relentlessly. The casinos will not offer these games at any higher than quarters for the same reason.

Hope this helps.

Barbiaux · 05-22-2011, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fergie72

A machine that just hit a royal is no more or less likely to hit another than a machine that hasnt hit one in 80,000 hands.

There is no such thing as a hot, cold or due machine.

Hope this helps.

I knew this was going to be said, I was just hoping it was not. How do people like Bob Dancer make a yearly profit from these machines. I ordered his book as well tonight so I guess I will see when I get it but is there a short answer to this question.

When they say a machine is 99.x % return, how is this based. Do they have to guarantee that each machine has to pay it out in a certain time frame or is this also figured in the life of the machine.

rammynutzhard · 05-23-2011, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barbiaux

I knew this was going to be said, I was just hoping it was not. How do people like Bob Dancer make a yearly profit from these machines. I ordered his book as well tonight so I guess I will see when I get it but is there a short answer to this question.

When they say a machine is 99.x % return, how is this based. Do they have to guarantee that each machine has to pay it out in a certain time frame or is this also figured in the life of the machine.

The return is solely based on the paytable of the machine. If you find a row of machines with the exact same paytable, then every machine has the same return. This is unlike slot machines that can have a row of the same machines that can be "tweaked" to have different returns. The advantage to a video poker machine is that your return is always clearly labeled just by looking at the paytable. Once you do your research on paytables, you will be able to spot a good machine. Most of the differences in return are going to occur with the full house and flush payouts in a lot of the games. When you see people referring to 9/6 Jacks or Better, the 9 is the 1 coin payout for a full house and the 6 is the 1 coin payout for a flush. You will see differences as you go through the casino with these payouts, and you always want to get as close to full pay as possible.

Also, always make sure to bet max coins in whatever denomination you are playing. If you can't afford to bet max coins in the denomination you are in, then play a lower one. If you take notice of the paytable on a typical video poker machine, you are playing at a MUCH lower EV if you don't bet max coins. Take for example the royal flush payouts. Most machines pay 250-1 on any bet less than max coins. That payout jumps to 800-1 on max bet. Even though your royal is the most unlikely winner, hitting them at 800-1 is an important part of overall EV.

Try to find progressives, too. These only help your overall EV, and at times, can raise the EV of a negative game into a positive one! Make sure you check the paytables first, though.. since sometimes they lower the full house/flush payouts.

As for how Bob Dancer and other pros make a lot of money off of VP.. They are playing the best games available with the highest returns. They are also playing at casinos that offer the best loyalty programs, since this is a HUGE part of profit. If you can find a game close to 100% payback at a casino that offers good cashback, good bonus cash, giveaways, and cash multiplier days, then you can grind out a good profit. Remember though, I said "grind," that is what VP is..

rammynutzhard · 05-23-2011, 01:51 AM

One more thing, I suggest Video Poker for Winners or WinPoker as software programs to use to help with strategy in holds. They are both good programs and will help guide you on what to hold in every hand dealt. Paytables won't do you any good unless you are making the correct strategy holds.

syncmaster · 05-23-2011, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barbiaux

How do people like Bob Dancer make a yearly profit from these machines. I ordered his book as well tonight so I guess I will see when I get it but is there a short answer to this question.

When they say a machine is 99.x % return, how is this based. Do they have to guarantee that each machine has to pay it out in a certain time frame or is this also figured in the life of the machine.

If he was making that much, he wouldn't be selling books telling his secrets.

Its kind of like those get rich "schemes" that pop up every few years but really work at first. After it is no longer worth the time/money, however is still slightly profitable, you see hundreds of "how to" guides come out all of a sudden. This is the same way. It worked one day, and no doubt people made a living off it. However the casino catches on, and now the guy is making less than he would flipping burgers. You still find a great deal to exploit every now and then, but the more of a money maker it is for you, the quicker the casino is likely to find out and kill it.

Check the wizard of odds link posted above. A lot of great info all over that site. I would read every page you can find. Well, obviously you don't need to read the strategy on Caribbean Stud (for example) if you never intend on playing it.

The 99% is based on playing perfect strategy. Just like you can find a strategy card for blackjack, you can find one for video poker or almost any game. Following this chart will give you those odds in the long run. Your expected return is different (worse) if you don't follow this strategy. If your goal was to lose as much money as possible, you could throw away your first 5 cards every time and your return would go WAY down. However, there is still a chance you get lucky and win. The machine is just dealt fairly, your odds depend on how you play.

Just like in blackjack, it can be the worst game in the house if you chose to hit your 20 or double your 16 every time. However, its one of the best if you go out and learn the strategy. The reason these games still run even with these small edges, is because people chose not to learn them. I'm playing blackjack or video poker with less than a 1% house edge when I gamble. The guy next to me, is playing the same exact game but with a 5% house edge.

Fergie72 · 05-23-2011, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rammynutzhard

One more thing, I suggest Video Poker for Winners or WinPoker as software programs to use to help with strategy in holds. They are both good programs and will help guide you on what to hold in every hand dealt. Paytables won't do you any good unless you are making the correct strategy holds.

I bought WinPoker for $10 from the app store and downloaded it onto my iphone. You can practice in training mode in any of 31 games and even change the pay schedules to match whatever game you will be playing in the casino. It is easy to have the game mastered by the time you sit down to play for real and if you come accross a hand you arent sure of it is fast and easy to plug the hand into your phone and get the right hold.

I highly recommend using this tool.

Neil S · 05-23-2011, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syncmaster

If he was making that much, he wouldn't be selling books telling his secrets.

Not true. Having proven his point, selling books, software, and online seminars is probably much less work.

Passive income >>>> grinding out your money. Every time.

Barbiaux · 05-23-2011, 10:04 PM

a lot of great info in this thread as always.

One thing I didn't see mentioned though is, how is it done. Do people who make money sit there and play until they get the royal and hope it wins more than lost so far? On the podcast I just listened to he mentioned a royal cycle can be as many as 30,000 hands.