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Old 04-16-2012, 02:06 PM   #16
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Re: thoery to beat roulette can anyone see a flaw???

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Originally Posted by Adz View Post
in theory for 30 spins an hour you should win 50% of time
Congrats on finding a roulette wheel that has no 0 or 00.
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Old 04-16-2012, 02:08 PM   #17
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Re: thoery to beat roulette can anyone see a flaw???

The easiest way to think about the system is that it is very simple. It is so simple that almost everyone who has ever played or thought about playing roulette has thought of it. If you do google it, you will see that people have tried strategies like this since the 18th century (and probably before).

And despite the fact that this simple strategy is well known by every gambler in the entire world, the casinos do nothing to stop people from doing it.

Clearly, if this strategy worked, casinos would be out of business. Just as clearly, they are not.
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:40 PM   #18
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Re: thoery to beat roulette can anyone see a flaw???

OP found out how to win the gamblings!
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:42 AM   #19
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Re: thoery to beat roulette can anyone see a flaw???

linearity of expectations combined with a bunch of stopping time theorems.
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Old 04-18-2012, 09:08 AM   #20
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Re: thoery to beat roulette can anyone see a flaw???

The problem with defining "profits" with these kinds of strategies is that you first need to define rigorously what you mean by this system. If a system has a possibility of not ending, there can be no measure of "profit" (how would we measure our profits if we can never stop playing to fulfill the conditions of a system?). Also related, but more important, in order for us to calculate pure "profit", a system must be defined so that the time it takes to play through the system is bounded almost surely by some finite number.

For example, say system A is defined as betting red 100 times or until we win our first spin. Fine, because we know that this system will end within 100 spins, we can easily compute expectations, etc.

System B is defined as betting red with the system described above (5, 10, 20, etc.) until we win or until we run out of money. Also, fine, since we can calculate the maximum number of rounds we would be able to play under this system, i.e., max(n) ~ log(BANKROLL).

System C is defined as betting red (5, 10, 20, etc.) but suppose now that we have infinite bankroll and the house takes any amount of bet. This system is well-defined but calculating pure/fixed profits is unreasonable since the number of rounds is not bounded almost surely by some finite number. [pf. suppose for contradiction that that the number of rounds is bounded almost surely by M. it is easy to show that Pr(n > M) ~ 2^(M+1)].

System C is what attracts most first-time gamblers (or long-time degens). In order to implicitly satisfy the finiteness constraint, they will add constraints such as "I'll play until this weekend is over" or more likely "I'll play until I run out of money". By doing either, they are putting a time constraint that corresponds to scenario B (where the maximum number of possible rounds can easily be calculated). Scenario corresponds to negative expected profit.

Last edited by Starbucks; 04-18-2012 at 09:15 AM.
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Old 04-18-2012, 09:16 AM   #21
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Re: thoery to beat roulette can anyone see a flaw???

^Explanation has a bunch of holes. People should find them and fill them in. I've gotta go to work.
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Old 04-18-2012, 12:02 PM   #22
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Re: thoery to beat roulette can anyone see a flaw???

I'll take the house's side on martingale any day. If the player wins, they only win the minimum bet. If they lose, they lose everything.

Odds don't change just because you're betting a lot of times. The house has the same edge on each and every one of those bets you're making, and eventually you will run out of money. By the time you lost 20 bets in a row, you're down over $2.6 million, and have to bet this much just to see if you will win your original $5 back. By the time you lose 30 bets in a row, you're betting 2.7 billion to win $5.
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Old 04-18-2012, 12:08 PM   #23
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Re: thoery to beat roulette can anyone see a flaw???

I can hear all the casinos moving out all the roulette wheel stations right now. No way to make money on the wheel for the house anymore, since this system has gone public.
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Old 04-18-2012, 01:09 PM   #24
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Re: thoery to beat roulette can anyone see a flaw???

"Gambling is a tax on people who are bad at math"
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Old 04-18-2012, 01:10 PM   #25
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Re: thoery to beat roulette can anyone see a flaw???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starbucks View Post
The problem with defining "profits" with these kinds of strategies is that you first need to define rigorously what you mean by this system. If a system has a possibility of not ending, there can be no measure of "profit" (how would we measure our profits if we can never stop playing to fulfill the conditions of a system?). Also related, but more important, in order for us to calculate pure "profit", a system must be defined so that the time it takes to play through the system is bounded almost surely by some finite number.

For example, say system A is defined as betting red 100 times or until we win our first spin. Fine, because we know that this system will end within 100 spins, we can easily compute expectations, etc.

System B is defined as betting red with the system described above (5, 10, 20, etc.) until we win or until we run out of money. Also, fine, since we can calculate the maximum number of rounds we would be able to play under this system, i.e., max(n) ~ log(BANKROLL).

System C is defined as betting red (5, 10, 20, etc.) but suppose now that we have infinite bankroll and the house takes any amount of bet. This system is well-defined but calculating pure/fixed profits is unreasonable since the number of rounds is not bounded almost surely by some finite number. [pf. suppose for contradiction that that the number of rounds is bounded almost surely by M. it is easy to show that Pr(n > M) ~ 2^(M+1)].

System C is what attracts most first-time gamblers (or long-time degens). In order to implicitly satisfy the finiteness constraint, they will add constraints such as "I'll play until this weekend is over" or more likely "I'll play until I run out of money". By doing either, they are putting a time constraint that corresponds to scenario B (where the maximum number of possible rounds can easily be calculated). Scenario corresponds to negative expected profit.
No money in roulette everyones solid.
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Old 04-18-2012, 02:42 PM   #26
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Re: thoery to beat roulette can anyone see a flaw???

Mike Caro still has the best roulette system (google it)
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:37 PM   #27
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Re: thoery to beat roulette can anyone see a flaw???

Quote:
Originally Posted by soon2bepro View Post
... By the time you lose 30 bets in a row, you're betting 2.7 billion to win $5.
How much would you tip after winning the 2.7 birion back?

about $3.50 i guess...since anything above $5 would be -EV

Last edited by Sufferinsuccotash; 04-18-2012 at 08:53 PM. Reason: answered my own question
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Old 04-19-2012, 03:43 AM   #28
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Re: thoery to beat roulette can anyone see a flaw???

There is no way around the math, if the game is -EV, it is -EV and roulette is -EV.

Lets say we were going to flip coins vs each other, I'll take Heads and you take tails.

When it lands on heads you pay me $6 and when it lands on tails, I'll pay you $5.

Over the longrun, you cannot win, so any brillaint strategy you come up with cannot over come the basic math that you are playing a game where you are at a disadvantage.

The house has 0 and 00, that is their edge over red and black. You can't over come that over the longrun just as you can't overcome my coin flip scenario over the longrun (without cheating of course)
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Old 04-19-2012, 03:57 AM   #29
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Re: thoery to beat roulette can anyone see a flaw???

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Originally Posted by Maso777 View Post
5-10-20-40-80-160-320-640 etc..

It gets expensive fast.
I was at Bellagio watching the sickest cooler of all time.

Dealer kept hitting Red, the History board was all red...

Everyone was betting $500 - $5,000 per bet and every spin there was at least $40K on the table in bets. Everyone was betting black because it was "due".

It become emotional, players started tilting, and it was the funniest thing in the world to watch 15 people bet black and NO ONE bet red.

I stood there and watched that dealer spin red 19 times in a row.

Then finally, the few people left started betting red, and that dealer then went and hit 13 blacks in a row. It was unreal.

People were cursing in French and Japanese and a couple of other foriegn languages talking about how the wheel was "fixed".

It was crazy watching about a million dollars being taken in by the house.
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Old 04-19-2012, 08:58 AM   #30
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Re: thoery to beat roulette can anyone see a flaw???

You guys are doing it wrong.

1) Start off betting large and then decrease bets by 1/2
2) Profit
3) Easy game
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