I understand this goes against basic strategy, but can someone go through the math on this? It seems to me that if basic strat says stand anything against a 6 and our likelyhood of hitting 7 or greater is pretty high, this should be a profitable move due to the higher likelyhood of a dealer bust.

i dunno, i'm not a blackjack expert, but am certainly curious about this one

I ask the rest of the table if they mind first, unless my bet/bets are bigger than there's , but I like 2 do it

It is a profitable move but not as profitable as just standing on 20 as you're extremely likely to win on 20 vs 6 obviously.

Many plays are designed to be less un-profitable. Also, you don't stand on everything against a 6.

Standing or splitting, 10 10 is always a profitable hand and the difference is not large. You win about 10% more money over time by standing if you aren't counting cards.

If you are counting cards however, you could split against a 6 only on positive counts (I think +2 TC or more) and slightly increase your profit. But that also immediately gives you away as a card counter.

OP - people don't come up with these numbers by calculating it, which is incredibly difficult for multi-deck blackjack. They do it by massive billion hand simulations.

Splitting 10's vs 6 is negative EV as a basic strategy play. You will make more money in the long run standing on 20. For a card counter it becomes positive EV at about +5, depending on the exact game, although many players use the risk adverse index or higher index of +7 for splitting tens. I go even further. Because the play draws a great deal of attention, I generally won't make the play until an even higher count and then immediately exit the table at the next shuffle. The play really is poison as far as longevity concerns, but sometimes the count is just too good to ignore the play. lol

If you do decide to make the play, go ahead and make it. Don't ask other players if they mind. lol Never worry about other players, regardless of what you are betting or what they are betting. You have a right to play your hand any way you like. Blackjack isn't a team sport! (unless of course you are playing on a team)

If you want the actual #'s, go to this link:

http://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/appendix/9/

Select the correct page for the number of decks and rules (hit or stand on S17) you're playing.

Scroll down to the second table (which gives figures for player holding two cards of the same rank). Compare the expected return for the player standing on 10,10 vs. a dealer 6 compared to splitting. You will see they are both positive, but standing is greater.

That's the math. As NewOldGuy points out, there's not a formula, but rather the results of billions of computer simulations.

are you guys in the same game I am?....because even 20 isn't safe in the BJ games I play in. It's like auto 21...Should be splitting dem tens and making 21 just so I can be happy to push!

This reminds me of poker noobs itching to try all those high level moves they see on Poker After Dark at their 1/2nl game saying, "well I saw Phil Ivey do it so it must be the correct play "

If you have to ask then you shouldn't do it.

I was playing blackjack once and the TC somewhere between 3 and 4 (which means it was 3, since you truncuate you do not round). There was a gentleman seated on my left but aside from himself and myself there were no other players wagering on the game. In a move that was, in retrospect, ill advised I decided to back bet on his hand. Actually back betting affords a whopping .2% advantage should the person controlling the hand be a compulsive splitter but it can be up to a 1% advantage given basic ploppy play or even more severely a 100% disadvantage should you incur their ploppy wrath.

At any rate, this fine man who I was back betting on get twenty with two ten value cards and I had a substantial sum wagered on the hand which I was forced to double. I would have much prefered to stand, which was a higher ev lower risk play, but ironically I was very close to the index to split which meant that the gentleman's play was probably close to ev neutral. I pony up the dough and we end up pushing.

Two hands later he is back betting me. The tank has gone south so I'm at table mininum but he's won a few hands and is pressing his bets so I decide to get back at him by HITTING a hard 20. Simply to bust and make him lose. Ofc I end up pulling an ace and wave.

It depends, but building basic strategy charts (either player's hand total or hand composition) are usually calculated off the top of the deck using recursion. This method allows decisions to be made with exact precision. Simulation always involves approximation.

Playing strategy decisions can also be calculated this way, using simulated deck composition ranges. The advantage here is that the decision will be absolutely correct for the given composition, but there is no guarantee that the "mix" of decks evaluated to build a playing strategy represents a random draw. For example, how does one represent a +5 true count, as there are billions of possibilities in a 6 deck shoe? The same problem exists for simulation, but playing billions of hands it takes quite a bit longer to evaluate.

Aggregate player advantage for a given system is always determined through simulation.

wow thats just about the biggest dick move ever. well done. how many security guards had to be called in to seperate him from you?

He was remarkably sanguine about the whole event.

thats def unusual. especially given how grumpy and on edge the average person sitting at a blackjack table is. please tell me he continued to back bet you after you tried to totally **** him over. haha.

if this actually happened its a good story, though, for sure.

It definitely happened. Spend enough time at the blackjack tables and you see some wacky stuff. I was playing @ Casino Lac-Lamay (classy joint) when I went this random gamblor dude. We start chatting and go for smokes. Both of us are playing in the high limit area. So I join his table and this dude is crazy. he must have brought 50k with him. certainly 20+. It's not like I took an inventory. So we're playing and the count goes south so I'm betting the minimum - $50. This guy starts losing hard and he is firing out purple chips, 2, 3 @ a time on a hand. He keeps losing and he's betting table max, 2k, on two hands. Loses it all. And it's clearly a habitual thing for him. Poor bastard. I tried to help him a bit but he definitely wasn't having it. It's funny that someone can throw seroious money @ a game and not even bother to google about it and research basic strategy or card counting. I guess some people are just idiots.