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Old 06-25-2008, 03:31 PM   #1
grinder
 
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Pai Gow Envy bonus question

Yesterday someone at the poker table told me a funny story. I wouldn't have believed it except she was playing at the table (i.e. it wasn't "heard from a friend") and this person is an older lady who goes to the casino every day and don't see any reason she would exaggerate or lie. I've played poker with her many times and we are sorta friendly because of it.

So she is playing Pai Gow at the Paris and an older guy is playing with 2 $500 chips but nothing on the bonus. He gets a 7 card natural straight flush and shows it to her (his right). This pays $5000 envy bonus to everyone playing at least $5 on the bonus. The lady on her right starts getting all excited and apparently he and her have had some verbal run-ins for whatever reason. So he demands a purple chip from her - she refuses - and he then mucks his cards. The lady telling me the story says he flipped her a purple chip as a consolation apology for doing this.

1st, this is an amazing story to me. I wouldn't have believed it except for the source, so I figured it was worth sharing here.

2nd, my question is since other players have an interest in the hand I wonder if he can be forced to play the hand out. It seems like if they have bet money against the casino the bet needs to be resolved, kinda like if I banked they wouldn't let me muck (I don't think). Would these people have a valid gaming complaint?
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Old 06-25-2008, 05:29 PM   #2
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Re: Pai Gow Envy bonus question

It's bull****. The only reason a player mucks his cards is because he knows its a losing one and to save the dealer time. If he had a 7 card natural straight flush she would have said something and the dealer would have turned the cards over and they all would have been paid. She is lying to you.
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Old 06-25-2008, 06:17 PM   #3
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Re: Pai Gow Envy bonus question

Quote:
Originally Posted by white1ce View Post
It's bull****. The only reason a player mucks his cards is because he knows its a losing one and to save the dealer time. If he had a 7 card natural straight flush she would have said something and the dealer would have turned the cards over and they all would have been paid. She is lying to you.
Well apparently this guy had ~40K in purples on the table. And a 7 card straight flush would usually be a push (not a winner) because the two high cards would go up top and be unpaired so it is not really a likely winner. So it is not completely crazy.

I don't know if she was lying or not, I wouldn't have posted this except I got into a 20 minute discussion with someone last night debating whether the casino would be forced to pay off the envy, and was curious if the brain trust here would know the ruling on this situation.

Feel free to ignore the reality aspect and treat it is a theoretical.
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Old 06-25-2008, 06:37 PM   #4
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Re: Pai Gow Envy bonus question

every casino, I have played at with the fortune/envy side bet the dealer opens all mucked cards if there is an envy bet on the table.
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Old 06-25-2008, 09:32 PM   #5
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Re: Pai Gow Envy bonus question

this is the pai gow version of the bad beat jackpot fold in hold 'em
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Old 06-26-2008, 01:31 AM   #6
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Re: Pai Gow Envy bonus question

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwalk View Post
every casino, I have played at with the fortune/envy side bet the dealer opens all mucked cards if there is an envy bet on the table.
Hmmm...I am no expert on Pai Gow, but I know for a 100% fact Suncoast, Red Rock, and Rampart all do not do this.
I haven't played on the strip lately enough to remember any specifics.
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Old 06-26-2008, 10:58 PM   #7
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Re: Pai Gow Envy bonus question

Quote:
Well apparently this guy had ~40K in purples on the table. And a 7 card straight flush would usually be a push (not a winner) because the two high cards would go up top and be unpaired so it is not really a likely winner. So it is not completely crazy.
Yes it is completely crazy. Why would he muck a hand that's likely a push and instead forfeit $1000? For spite?

I go with "didn't happen".

Also, even if they wouldn't open cards automatically when an Envy is in play (I've seen this done), once another player with an interest in the hand who KNEW the nature of the hand says something, it's a virtual certainty the hand gets opened.
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Old 06-29-2008, 06:21 PM   #8
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Re: Pai Gow Envy bonus question

There are several ways to play a seven card natural straight flush that does not result in a straight -- and all of those options were available to him. I can't imaging the house interfering with his decision.
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Old 07-11-2008, 07:33 AM   #9
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Re: Pai Gow Envy bonus question

lol... she probably isnt lying, this is totally possible, first of all, why would the casino flip up the cards, its the players right to muck his hand if he or she wants, the casino doesnt go through mucked hands, at least where i work, they dont care, they dont want to give away a bunch of money in envy bonuses anyway,

ps. this happened at my casino, there is a guy who comes in and plays the 5$ table, with no bonus, and ALWAYS gets envy bonuses, one day he got a straight flush, with no bonus up, which paid a 20$ envy bonus, he told everyone at the table to give him 5$ or he would muck his hand, nobody gave him 5$, but he still played for the push anyway, cause hes a ghetto degen and wanted to save at least the 5$ lol so ghetto.
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