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| Other Gambling Games Discussion about other gambling games. |
06-16-2012, 12:51 PM
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#106
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 4,677
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Re: OK, I'm in the Well
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubonicplay
Here we go, whats the MOST degen thing you've ever done?
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I had to think about this question for quite a while -- not because there aren't incidents that come to mind, but because I really don't want to discuss them here. I've tried to be as honest as I can be, but there are some things that really shouldn't be 'on the record'. In almost all aspects of life, business is done as a result of voluntary cooperation, not because of laws or contracts -- and when people break their word, the law rarely provides sufficient remedy (if any). From my research, in a best case scenario about 2-3% of the population are psychopaths/sociopaths -- and from my experience, that percentage goes up the bigger the stakes in the game you're playing. Obviously, when you find yourself involved with people whose ethics are marginal, positions can rapidly degenerate -- and when the law doesn't provide a solution, you have to present a credible response in some other form. That's simply survival.
I know that's not the licentious story you were soliciting -- but it's the best I can do.
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06-16-2012, 07:38 PM
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#107
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: canada
Posts: 4,679
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Re: OK, I'm in the Well
would a small charity casino even be watching for card counters at a 5$ blackjack table regularly or is it too small to even matter?
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06-16-2012, 07:58 PM
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#108
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King of the sidebar
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 15,953
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Re: OK, I'm in the Well
Smaller places are going to be even more sensitive to losses I would think.
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06-16-2012, 09:53 PM
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#109
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 4,677
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Re: OK, I'm in the Well
Quote:
Originally Posted by springzz
would a small charity casino even be watching for card counters at a 5$ blackjack table regularly or is it too small to even matter?
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It depend if this charity is playing for real money or if winnings are spent at auction -- in the former case they're probably watching for theft but wouldn't know it if they saw it, and in the latter case they wouldn't care. Why in the world would you want to take a shot at a charity? I mean, if it cost them money?
Well, maybe if it was United Way I could see it
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06-16-2012, 09:56 PM
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#110
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 4,677
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Re: OK, I'm in the Well
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil S
Smaller places are going to be even more sensitive to losses I would think.
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In general that's true. In a small club, one guy shooting $200 a hand can blow the entire shift for the pit.
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06-17-2012, 05:03 AM
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#111
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journeyman
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 399
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Re: OK, I'm in the Well
Do you think sports betting will see increased legalization in the USA (in the relatively short term)?
What's the best innovation in gaming you've seen during your career? The worst?
What's your proudest moment in gaming, both on the inside and out?
Describe your retirement club. I think this entire sub-forum would book a flight tomorrow if it opened.
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06-17-2012, 11:00 AM
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#112
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 4,677
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Re: OK, I'm in the Well
Quote:
Originally Posted by WheelDraw1020
Do you think sports betting will see increased legalization in the USA (in the relatively short term)?
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Yes. I think the US will eventually follow the UK model, but there will be continued opposition from organized sports slowing it down. One thing the US needs to come to terms with is taxes on winnings, but until gift and inheritance taxes are reformed, changes there are unlikely. There are also money-transfer, credit margin, and record-keeping issues -- so the bookies will always have a market.
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What's the best innovation in gaming you've seen during your career? The worst?
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The best innovations have been in slot machines. Modern slots are a true marvel in their ability to exploit every fallacy of the unsophisticated player -- and they're a lot more entertaining than their precursors. This is a good trend considering you don't play the things -- it's these machines that actually foot the bill for the resorts we enjoy. As a player, it's like they put a property tax on all my neighbors but skipped my house.
The worst trend is removing the "power of the pen" from almost all of the front line employees. There's no question that it was overtly abused, but that should have been addressed by policy and enforcement, not handcuffs. A club environment should feel like a party, and every club employee should have some latitude to act as a host.
Quote:
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What's your proudest moment in gaming, both on the inside and out?
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Inside -- being part of a good crew who knew how to make sure that everyone who stepped in the door had a good time. It's hard to "party" for a living -- and it takes very special people to make a club work properly. When it's working, it's like watching a well choreographed performance -- which is an experience the patrons should expect. You can tell how well a club is being run simply by observing how frequently you observe staff talking to each other instead of their customers.
Outside -- I play to win and for entertainment. Nothing to be proud of there
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Describe your retirement club. I think this entire sub-forum would book a flight tomorrow if it opened.
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A small club in a high foot-traffic location, which is why I mentioned the two locations I did. No rooms, no pools -- let the neighbors take care of that. Live entertainment, good bar food, and more parimutuel wagering through jackpots and player banked games. Clubs today are almost all selling the same product, and only a small club can really afford to break the cookie-cutter mold and target a specific audience.
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06-17-2012, 06:15 PM
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#113
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old hand
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: South Las Vegas
Posts: 1,444
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Re: OK, I'm in the Well
Modern slots (e.g. $3 "penny" slots) are just vidgames. How do they "exploit every fallacy of the unsophisticated player?" I thought they just didn't pay.
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06-17-2012, 07:02 PM
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#114
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King of the sidebar
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 15,953
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Re: OK, I'm in the Well
They create the illusion of skill, for one.
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06-17-2012, 07:20 PM
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#115
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old hand
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,299
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Re: OK, I'm in the Well
Quote:
Originally Posted by eobmtns
Modern slots (e.g. $3 "penny" slots) are just vidgames. How do they "exploit every fallacy of the unsophisticated player?" I thought they just didn't pay.
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If you walked around the casino and asked slot players about their bonuses and if they controlled how much they won 98% of them think they have any say in how much is won in a bonus.
I was once sitting next to an older guy and the game froze during a bonus round. The slot attendant came over and fixed it but it ended the bonus and paid him his win. He flipped out because he said he would have picked better than that and he could have won a lot more.
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06-17-2012, 08:51 PM
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#116
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 4,677
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Re: OK, I'm in the Well
Quote:
Originally Posted by eobmtns
Modern slots (e.g. $3 "penny" slots) are just vidgames. How do they "exploit every fallacy of the unsophisticated player?" I thought they just didn't pay.
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They're brilliantly designed -- and they pay quite well, relatively. They are works of art. I'll see if I can find some info on fallacies to post -- Epstein did a nice summary as I recall.
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06-17-2012, 09:43 PM
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#117
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 4,677
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Re: OK, I'm in the Well
Found it -- it's a good book. I put a link at the end.
Quote:
Fallacies
Without mathematical context, we shall list some of the fallacies prevalent in gambling as a result of psychological influences. The uneducated gambler exemplifies, par excellence, the process of intuitive logic. He is often charged with emotion and directed by passionate, primitive beliefs; thus his acts may often contrast with the dictates of his objective knowledge. He injects a personal element into an impersonal situation.
Culled from many observations and laboratory experiments, the following 12 fallacies appear to be most prevalent and most injurious (in terms of profit and loss) to the susceptible gambler:
1. A tendency to overvalue wagers involving a low probability of a high gain and undervalue wagers involving a relatively high probability of low gain. This tendency accounts for some of the "long-shot" betting at race tracks.
2. A tendency to interpret the probability of successive independent events as additive rather than multiplicative. Thus the chance of throwing a given number on a die is considered twice as large with two throws of the die as it is with a single throw.
3. After a run of successes a failure is inevitable, and vice versa (the Monte Carlo fallacy).
4. The psychological probability of the occurrence of an event exceeds the mathematical probability if the event is favorable and conversely. For example, the probability of success of drawing the winning ticket in a lottery and the probability of being killed in the next year in an automobile accident may both be one chance in 10,000; yet the former is considered much more probable from a personal viewpoint.
5. The prediction of an event cannot be detached from the outcomes of similar events in the past, despite mathematical independence.
6. When a choice is offered between a single large chance and several small chances whose sum is equal to the single chance, the single large chance is preferred when the multiple chances consist of repeated attempts to obtain the winning selection from the same source (with replacement); however, when there is a different source for each of the multiple chances, they are preferred.
7. The value of the probability of a multiple additive choice tends to be underestimated; and the value of a multiplicative probability tends to be overestimated.
8. When a person observes a series of of randomly generated events of different kinds with an interest in the frequency with which each kind of event occurs, he tends to overestimate the frequency of occurrence of infrequent events and to underestimate that of comparatively frequent ones. Thus one remembers the "streaks" in a long series of wins and losses and tends to minimize the number of short term runs.
9. A tendency to overestimate the degree of skill involved in a gambling situation involving both skill and chance.
10. A strong tendency to overvalue the significance of a limited sample selected from a relatively large population.
11. The concept of "luck" is conceived as a quantity stored in a warehouse, to be conserved or depleted. A law of conservation of "luck" is implied, and often "systems" are devised to distribute the available luck in a fortuitous manner. Objectively, "luck" is merely an illusion of the mind.
12. The sample space of "unusual" events is confused with that of low-probability events. For one example, the remarkable feature of a bridge hand of 13 spades is its apparent regularity, not its rarity (all hands are equally probable). For another, if one holds a number close to the winning number in a lottery, one tends to feel that a terribly bad stroke of misfortune has caused one just to miss the prize. Bertrand Russel's remark that we encounter a miracle every time we read the license number of a passing automobile is encompassed by this fallacy. The probability of an "unusual" occurrence should be equated to the ratio of the number of unusual (by virtue of symmetry or other aesthetic criteria) events to the total number of events.
In addition to those enumerated above, there exist other fallacies more directly associated with superstition than with intuitive logic ...
From The Theory of Gambling and Statistical Logic, by Richard Epstein, 1977. Pages 393-394.
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06-17-2012, 09:51 PM
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#118
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 4,677
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Re: OK, I'm in the Well
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil S
They create the illusion of skill, for one.
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Yes. It's like watching a five year old play a video game in 'attract mode' when they don't have any money in -- they will push buttons and pull levers, attributing everything good that happens on the screen to their skill.
It's the trademark of gamblers and politicians.
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06-18-2012, 05:51 AM
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#119
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journeyman
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 399
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Re: OK, I'm in the Well
What do you think of tournament blackjack?
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06-18-2012, 12:40 PM
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#120
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 4,677
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Re: OK, I'm in the Well
Quote:
Originally Posted by WheelDraw1020
What do you think of tournament blackjack?
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I've tried it a few times. The skill factor in tournament blackjack is not negligible, but it's nowhere near the factor it is in tournament poker. Even if it were, the opportunities are not frequent enough or the prize money big enough that a person could expect a substantial return. Another consideration, the casino doesn't really care if you're a pro poker player, they do care if you're a pro blackjack player -- so why out yourself.
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