0ff topic but relates somewhat to blackjack. I played BJ frequently back in the late 80's early 90's before poker became big in AC . I would play at $25 minimum table bought in for $300 -$500 . That amt would hold me for maybe 2hrs depending how good i would run or i would blow it within an hr if my luck was running bad. My question is in relation to poker cash games . Would $25 minimum BJ table and $2 $4 NL table have the same equality ? Would $5 $10 NL be more along the lines of $100 minimum BJ table? I would think $1 $2 NL would be more along the lines of $10 minimum BJ table. Would you agree on any of those comparisons?

What!?

There's a house edge in blackjack. I don't think you can compare the two.

Are you asking about what levels of BJ and NL are the equivalent in terms of how much money you should bring to the casino to play?

I think that's his question plus just a hint of which one might be easier to win for the rec.

If you can count cards, you can usually generate an EV of +0.01 to 0.02, with a SD of 2.5 to 3.0. That's an n0 of 100k to 200k hands (1k to 2k hours) and a bankroll of maybe 500 units or so.

LHE can have an EV of +0.5 to 1.0 BB/hr with SDs of 10 to 15. n0 is 500 to 1500 hours and a bankroll of 150 to 300 BBs.

NL can have an EV of +5 to +10 bb/hr with SDs of 60 to 80. n0 is 200 to 1000 hours and a bankroll of 500 to 1000 bbs.

If you've got 10k, which is about a bankroll for $25 unit BJ, you could play 20/40 LHE or 5/10 NL, if you had the skill, and NL would generate the biggest winrate.

I've heard you want your BJ bankroll to be 400 bets and your poker bankroll to be 30 buyins.

Thats exactly what i mean along with the equivalent of time that amt should last in comparison with both

For now lets just work with $500 buy in $2 $4 NL in comparison to $25 min BJ table.

Very hard to compare. In NL, your roll can last all night or five mins. So many variables

The longest breakeven stretch is n0 = (z*SD/WR)^2, where z = 2 for most people.

The bankroll required is B = 0.25*n0*WR.

The most important part is to note that both numbers depend heavily on WR and SD. So a crusher needs a much smaller bankroll than a marginal winner.

When WR is negative n0 is still meaningful, it's the longest stretch you can be a winner before you inevitably lose.

As WR goes to 0, B goes to infinity, and B is meaningless when WR is negative. At that point, you don't have a gambling bankroll, you have a gambling budget.

You can transform B into buyins if you want but big blinds per buyin is not constant.

With the proliferation of 6:5 blackjack, honestly, even 0.01 may be difficult to achieve. If you find a good game but have to travel, or limit your play, or Wong, you have to take that into consideration with your winrate. That is, for blackjack, EV (winnings per hand) and WR (winnings per hour) may not be interchangable. You can play with the formula to see where the 400 unit bankroll comes from, it's probably a 1:4 spread on a DD game with moderate penetration. If you can put in a fair number of hours in today's climate without heat, more power to you.

huh?

Do what I do: I skim his stuff and simply take his word for as much of it as I can understand bec calli's never wrong.

No money at blackjack, everyone's solid.

I'd say that is pretty close in equivalent. Pretty much the max buy in for whatever game you are talking about in poker will equate to your $500 at a $25 min BJ table.

Haha - agreed. He is so far above me I giggle sometimes. But I will say that I do learn a bit every time. Honestly though when I saw the first equation my mind when back to college calculus and I immediately got a headache!!

So does that mean that if my WR is 7.3 bb/hr and my SD is 58 bb/hr, I only need a $2300 bankroll for 2-5? there must be something I don't get here, as that seems very low. I've lost that much in a single day. Can someone explain?

I laughed a little... 'bout 350 seconds

The z=2 is the number of standard deviations. 2 standard deviations is 95% confidence. So a $2300 bankroll would give you a 5% risk of ruin, given your provided WR and SD. If you want a different risk of ruin you would need to change 'z', and that would give you a different BR requirement. Are you sure your SD is 58? That's on the tighter side, you probably don't have -2k results much.

I may have misread, but sounds like you're losing $300-500 in hours at Blackjack. So just find whatever level poker you're expectation is -$150-250 per hour. Should be different for everyone.

This, except z = 2 gives a one-sided percentage of 2.5% rather than 5%.

If you play long enough the probability is overwhelming that you will have a -$2,500 run eventually, but it's also overwhelmingly likely you'll win a lot before that happens. There was a 2.5% chance you started off with a -$2,500 run. Actually, less, because it includes the probability you win +$2,500 and then lose -$5,000.

Of course we could simply Kelly stake and throw away all of that risk of ruin stuff.

Table minimum tho.

You're not ruined though.

I would say a $25 minimum table equates quite well to 2/5 NL in terms of size of the game.