I have been reading a lot about counting cards (blackjack) and the information seems very contradictory. The same author can be talking one minute about minimizing hours of play, cover play, playing anonymously, and then quickly transition into discussing how many free trips, comps etc you can get.

I am really curious how this works in practice. Is a hotel that backed you off really going to comp you a suite next time you are in town? Are guys using some properties for comps and others simply to try to do the majority of their playing? Are the counters just using really good cover play techniques to keep from being identified by the properties that they get good comps from?

If anyone could lend some insight into strategies including when to and when not to use your players card, get rated etc I would be very interested. I would be happy to simply break even playing blackjack, but receive enough incentives to get great trips to places to play poker for the majority of my stay.

Thanks in advance,
zero

First of all, you should know that many casino's have quite a 'disconnect' between their marketing departments and surveillance/security departments. It is very common to receive mailers and offers long after you have backed off or even barred from the property.

I am based out of Vegas and as such, have no need for hotel rooms. My comp requirements consist of earning enough comps to eat at a casino at least once per day, which I count as part of my compensation. I can accomplish this at very minimal risk, playing minimal blackjack and occasional other games. Because my needs are so minimal, I will not play rated at any of the chain type properties that I play a lot of blackjack, like MGM, Stations or Boyd. I don't want to risk being backed off at one property and losing the who chain for any period of time. I concentrate my rated play to independent type properties like Terribles, Treasure Island, M resort, and a couple other smaller local type places for my meal comp needs.

I network regularly with several other either professional or semi-professional players who travel to Vegas and do require hotel rooms from comps. The conventional wisdom is to stay at one place and give them just enough rated play with a toned down spread to satisfy them, while hitting several other places hard playing unrated. The the next trip they just rotate casinos and that keeps the offers coming in.

Personally, I don't like this method. As a green to black player, if I were to tone down my spread for 4 hours to satisfy the property that is comping my room, that would cost me half of my hourly EV, in my case about $40/hr or $160 for 4 hours. And for that you are putting yourself at risk, by playing rated. This just doesn't make sense to me. If I did travel into Vegas, I would just play anonymously everywhere, preserve my longevity, and pay for my room (at a property that I wasn't playing at). Decent rooms in Vegas are so cheap right now. $49 range during the week. Double that on weekends. I guess if you need to have a high end suite for whatever reason, the rotating play with reduced spread would make sense, but otherwise, you will be saving money and anonymity by just paying for your room.

The best style of play for Vegas is to play short sessions. That is all the cover that you really need. But that is harder to do when you are playing for comps.

kewljason is giving you good advice. Keep in mind that clubs are always trying to steal customers from other clubs -- the "customer list" is one of a clubs most protected assets. You will find a fair amount of corporate espionage in the search for competitive intelligence, and a distrust of any information originating from a competitor. You can use their distrust to your advantage, and tell them whatever you want -- as long as you have a decent background story and you're not playing on credit, they will almost always believe you. Use it to your advantage. Don't sign up for their players cards -- just give them your business card. When they ask (and they always will) "Are you staying with us?" -- say "No, I'm staying at the Riviera -- they take pretty good care of me over there. My wife just wanted to see your ______, and I decided to play some cards."

Then leave.

Good advice in this thread but I wanted to voice skepticism that the separation between marketing and security will survive forever. This seems to be a relic of the paper age.

I've personally known people who stay at casino hotels for free and spend comps lavishly after being backed off. I'm sure some places communicate, but in my experience most don't.

I'm confused ... a few questions if you don't mind.

What kind of offers are reasonable to expect for a green chip player (playing 25-200x2/hand)?
Does this work at the chain properties (CET, MGM)?
Why Riviera or would you just say any hotel? Wouldn't it be better to say you're staying at a high end property (Bellagio, Encourage, etc)?
If I'm a Vegas local but have a mailing address in CA (but less convenient for me to reach obv). Which address should I use when dealing with casinos?

Thx.

Not much. They'll add you to their mailing list and offer some free rooms or deep discounts on rooms and dining during off peak periods.

I always choose a property lower on the feeding chain than where I'm at -- because the current property then knows they can compete for my business. If you say you're being treated well at Wynn, they will simply understand.

CA address, as well as your cell phone area code. Use a forwarding service for the mail.

SheetWise answers are correct if you are talking about the strip locations. But remember Vegas has a whole subset of casino's that cater to locals. Station casinos, Boyd properties, Terribles, M resort, South Point, The cannery's and even Palms will send you good mail offers for a green chip player spreading 25-almost anything. That is an average bet in the $50 range. If you show any machine play, even a mix of machine and table play, your offers will mostly be free play amounts throughout the month. If you show only table action, you will generate some matchplay and free chip offers.

Also if you have a local and out of state address available to you, you would do better to use the out of state address at the tourist places on the strip and even downtown, and the local address at some of the local-type places I mentioned. These places really are interested in locals and their mail will reflect that with offers good on certain days or periods throughout the month, trying to get you to make multiple trips.

If you really get into chasing these offers, it gets a little hectic, because some offers are only good on certain days while others are good for a range of days or weekly, you actually have to sit down and plan out a schedule to maximize your efforts.

Thanks for the replies.

Kewljason - is promo chasing worth it? If I were to spend just a few hours a wk (over one or two days) focusing on the best offers, what kind of EV or hourly would that be worth?

What's the best way to use BJ comps (as a local who doesn't need rooms)? Meals? Shows?

So I played a short (rated) session at a station casino tonight betting 10-75. After playing about an hour or so I asked for a food comp and they gave me $25 for one of their restaurants which was much more than I expected (I played more than twice as long at slightly higher stakes at a fiesta casino and was told I'd get just $8 in comps).

What happened? Was the comp for my play tonight or did it include my previous play? This is my 2nd time playin there. The first time I played for about the same stakes and duration as tonight's session.

I've heard that Bill's and Binion's, both Harrah's properties, have separate mailing lists for offers (separate from the normal Caesar's stuff, that is). Would it be worth it to consider them differently from the usual strip or dt places?

Just curious -- how much do you have to bet / hand before you get a host, free rooms / shows? Basically how you see people being treated in movies.

MGAddict, it's a mix (no pun intended) of your previous play and pit discretion. Table games ratings are still manual the same way they were decades ago unlike slots where the casino knows your coin in to the penny.

Since you were probably a bigger bettor at that particular table, the pit boss decided to give you $25 thinking you A. might not use all $25 and B. will appreciate it and come back. He / she could have just as easily given you $20 but realized in X hours of play, you never asked for anything. Maybe you'll eat $10 worth of food and come back and bet only green chips and leave a big loser.

The pit boss at Fiesta probably didn't care and felt no reason to give you any special treatment. He / she looks at a computer screen that shows your estimated average bet and length of play (rating) and generates a number for available comps that comes out to $8.32, so you get $8. Also, there's a chance the pit boss at Fiesta didn't factor in your big bets. She / he could have been sloppily rating you at an average of $15 per hand when it should have been $35.

I play some at the Orleans in their double deck game. Next time you're free, we should go do that. I want to start a team now with you and Albedoa.