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Old 04-13-2017, 01:26 AM   #1
commerceplayerbank
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Commerce Casino Class Action Law Suit Banning Player Bankers

You came across this post because you probably were searching for information on player banked games in card rooms in California or other states.
Please contact me at commerceplayerbankers@gmail.com if you have been personally banned, barred, asked to leave the Commerce Casino because you "tried" to be a player banker and were kicked out. If you know of someone else who has been banned or barred, please have them contact me as well. I was personally banned for player banking baccarat at the Commerce Casino.
I am in the process of filing a class action lawsuit in conjuction with members of the California Indian Tribal Council. The Commerce Casinos consistent habit of banning and barring players/customers who player bank baccarat, blackjack and other games is illegal.
I already have a dozen people who have contacted me and confirmed that they have been banned from the Commerce Casino for specifically player banking baccarat, blackjack and other games. The higher the number of people I have, the better case we have.
Anyone familiar with player banking knows that the Commerce Casino cannot ban customers who player bank. They can ban you for almost any other reason (fighting, drinking, etc), but players are protected by the D.O.J.
This post applies specifically to the Commerce Casino in Los Angeles, CA but will be applicable to other Card rooms as well. California State Law (protected by the Department of Justice) states that any individual can act as a player banker inside the Commerce casino for California card games such as Baccarat, Blackjack, Paigow, Ultimate Texas Holdem, Three Card Poker, Crazy Poker and other games. There may be new games or new versions of games by the the time you read this post.
It is illegal for the Commerce Casino to directly profit from players/gamblers in the games listed above. This is different from Las Vegas Casinos and Indian Tribal Casinos who payout out all winnings and losses directly to the player.
A third party corporation sits at every California game table and pays a collection every hand for the right to collect all winnings and payout all losses to the players who bet. The Commerce casino makes money from this collection on every hand. The collection could range from $2-$15 per hand and up. After every two hands the dealer offers every other player sitting at the table to have this same option: payout the winnings and collect the losses with their own personal money. I usually sit down to bank with $10,000-$30,000 personally, but an individual can player bank with the table minimum. Obviously if a player bets a $500 and wins and the player banker can't pay them, the player is upset, but the player banker still has this right to "bank" that hand.
I was making very good money before I was banned. The casino and third party corporation don't want any competition. However, if enough of us come together in this lawsuit, we will be able to take legal action and change these habits of banning players for "trying" to bank California Table Games.
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Old 04-16-2017, 10:02 PM   #2
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Re: Commerce Casino Class Action Law Suit Banning Player Bankers

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi1itN5xigM
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:30 AM   #3
Neil S
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Re: Commerce Casino Class Action Law Suit Banning Player Bankers

Good luck.
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Old 04-19-2017, 01:05 AM   #4
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Re: Commerce Casino Class Action Law Suit Banning Player Bankers

I don't understand what this is about. Player banking means you take the place of the house and they stand to win nothing? Why would they provide you with the accomodations to play for free?
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Old 04-19-2017, 11:00 PM   #5
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Re: Commerce Casino Class Action Law Suit Banning Player Bankers

I've been told I *must* have $25k to bank certain games. I also question the requirement that I play 2 hands when the corporation isn't forced to play hands.

I've never been barred, and haven't banked in LA, but I wish you luck. I have been refused action as a player by the corporation, though.

I've also had the corporation tell the casino to change their procedures, and the casino complied. Didn't seem very fair, but I don't know if it is illegal.
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Old 04-20-2017, 07:19 AM   #6
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Re: Commerce Casino Class Action Law Suit Banning Player Bankers

Quote:
Originally Posted by alwayscall View Post
I don't understand what this is about. Player banking means you take the place of the house and they stand to win nothing? Why would they provide you with the accomodations to play for free?
California doesn't allow the "house" (meaning the casino) to have any interest in the outcome of any gambling game. That's why the drop in poker is based off if there's a flop, turn, river and not based on pot size at all. It'd be illegal to look at the pot size to determine how much to rake. They're just charging for a service. To get around this and have blackjack and other table games they take a collection of typically $1 every hand from everyone playing table games and the players take turns being the house and booking everyone's bets. This makes table games horrible in California because you're paying rake on top of it being a -EV game.

Additionally, there's a company known as the corporation that pays people to sit down and act as the player bank every hand, and the problem OP has with that is because the casinos are basically colluding with the corporation to stop people from ever taking the corporation's action. They likely have some sort of arrangement under the table.
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:24 PM   #7
Jion_Wansu
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Re: Commerce Casino Class Action Law Suit Banning Player Bankers

Here's a thought...

Why don't gamblers in California only play table games at tribal casinos and boycott table games at non-tribal casinos...

If enough gamblers do this then California has to change the laws to be exactly like tribal casinos regarding table games
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Old 04-24-2017, 09:36 AM   #8
Neil S
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Re: Commerce Casino Class Action Law Suit Banning Player Bankers

Tribal casinos have their own problems, notably that they're run by tribal cartels with little oversight.

Also banking is a unique situation mathematically, and not something you can do at tribal casinos.
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Old 04-24-2017, 12:52 PM   #9
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Re: Commerce Casino Class Action Law Suit Banning Player Bankers

Also tribal casinos are, for the most part, located far away from population centers. There are a few that are grandfathered in, and recent compacts signed have been more and more lax about this unofficial rule, but in general for most of the population to get to a tribal casino it's a day trip.
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Old 06-02-2017, 12:46 AM   #10
alwayscall
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Re: Commerce Casino Class Action Law Suit Banning Player Bankers

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbo View Post
California doesn't allow the "house" (meaning the casino) to have any interest in the outcome of any gambling game. That's why the drop in poker is based off if there's a flop, turn, river and not based on pot size at all. It'd be illegal to look at the pot size to determine how much to rake. They're just charging for a service. To get around this and have blackjack and other table games they take a collection of typically $1 every hand from everyone playing table games and the players take turns being the house and booking everyone's bets. This makes table games horrible in California because you're paying rake on top of it being a -EV game.

Additionally, there's a company known as the corporation that pays people to sit down and act as the player bank every hand, and the problem OP has with that is because the casinos are basically colluding with the corporation to stop people from ever taking the corporation's action. They likely have some sort of arrangement under the table.
Thanks a lot for the very in-deph explanation.

It took me this long to revisit the thread and find your reply, sorry for that.

So in this case there's a dumb law that creates a situation where the casinos are killing the players, because they have to play "jumping the legal hoops" to be able to charge a reasonable amount for their games. I can't say I blame the casinos for doing this. As long as the law allows them to do it, they will of course do that. I can see how, from a players' perspective, it looks like they're being cheated, and in a way they are because the games are much worse because of this, but that's because of the dumb laws. It's not really the casinos' fault.
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Old 06-02-2017, 09:19 AM   #11
Neil S
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Re: Commerce Casino Class Action Law Suit Banning Player Bankers

That's simply not true alwayscall. They could easily charge a "reasonable" amount by raising the commissions. But instead they're choosing to break the law and collude. They're cheating.

What they're doing is like a poker house hiring a shill instead of raising the rake.
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