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Is Pai Gow beatable?

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07-09-2008 , 11:43 PM

Eihli

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,403

http://wizardofodds.com/paigowpoker
According to wizard of odds if you act as the banker, you have a .2 edge with 6 other players at the table. You can only bank every other hand assuming nobody else wants to bank.

Say you are betting the minimum $50 per hand, and everyone else at the table is betting the maximum $10,000 per hand. Extreme example of course, and would require a huge bankroll for relatively little profit, but.... profit?

House Edge in One on One Pai Gow Poker

Status

House
Edge
Player
2.73%
Banker
0.20%
Combined
1.46%

House Edge as Banker
by Number of other Players
Other Players
House Edge
1 +0.20%
2 -0.02%
3 -0.10%
4 -0.15%
5 -0.19%
6 -0.21%

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07-10-2008 , 12:15 AM

SheetWise

banned

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,677

The number of players doesn't really matter -- it's simply the spread of money between bank hands and non-bank hands. How often you would get to bank depends upon house rules -- it may be every seventh or eighth hand on a full table, whether the other players want to bank or not.

And if you can find a group of players who play poorly, it's gets even more interesting.

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07-10-2008 , 12:28 AM

Eihli

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,403

As a player banking, you win pushes right? (By pushes I mean when a hand is copied of course...) That combined with players not playing optimally gives you the edge, right?

And the one time I've played, nobody wanted to bank. Isn't it looked at worse than betting the don't in craps?

Last edited by Eihli; 07-10-2008 at 12:38 AM.

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07-10-2008 , 01:41 AM

Photoc

Sushi Master

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 8,596

Basically, you want as much money as possible bet against you when you bank. You have the edge over all the bets out there. If you are lucky enough to find a place that lets you bank every other hand, have a blast. The joints in Vegas are basically one bank per button orbit (all 6 players + dealer, and some have the button go back and forth from player to dealer, player to dealer, and the round takes 14 hands instead of 7). I have no idea why they do this since the house still is collecting the commission with a very small risk.

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07-10-2008 , 02:19 AM

Eihli

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,403

Can anyone tell me if this is right? 6 other players, 50 min bet, you can bank every other hand.

.0021x > .0273*50
x > 650

.0021(650) = .0273*50
You lose $1.37 cents when you play, and you win $1.37 cents when you bank.

So any time the total number of player bets is greater than 650, it's +EV to play pai gow?

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07-10-2008 , 01:15 PM

SheetWise

banned

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 4,677

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eihli

House Edge as Banker
by Number of other Players
Other Players / House Edge
1 +0.20%
2 -0.02%
3 -0.10%
4 -0.15%
5 -0.19%
6 -0.21%

This makes no sense if it's meant to represent the house edge when you're the banker.

It can't move from +.2 to -.21 simply because more people are playing, or because one player wagers 6x as much. The house edge when you're banking is going to be static as a percentage. This has to represent some sort of composite.

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07-10-2008 , 04:16 PM

Maso777

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 6,962

Standford Wong wrote a book about beating Pai Gow but I'm pretty sure its focused on playing in California because some casinos there have a slightly different rule set. I have not read this book but apparently some of these casinos use a flat commission rate, rather then taking a percent.

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07-10-2008 , 06:47 PM

UprightCreature

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 130

Quote:

Originally Posted by SheetWise

I don't think the house edge when banking is static because the commision is charged on your net win, not on your wager with each individual player.

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07-11-2008 , 07:09 AM

nbfb42

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 256

at the casino i work at, it is highly profitable to bank, although u can only bank about every 14 hands, the BIG advantage we have, and it baffles my mind why people barely ever bank here is that at our house, when you bank, you win the copy against the DEALER as well as the players.....

so take for example you are playing 1 on 1 with the dealer, and the dealer button comes around to you, you can bank and have the advantage over the house, only clause is that u have to bet the same amount as the hand before...i try to get people to bank all the time, but i guess they dont like money.

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07-21-2008 , 08:58 PM

#10

paigowmaster

enthusiast

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maso777

This is true. In the California non indian reservation casinos (commerce, hustler, bike) the players take turns being the bank. I heard you could make a living if you have a team of players banking the games using the stanford wong optimal strategy.

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07-21-2008 , 09:21 PM

#11

pkr4u

stranger

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 5

I know people who bank pai gow full time, you can make a living doing it.

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01-15-2015 , 08:39 AM

#12

temp007

banned

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 105

Quote:

Originally Posted by SheetWise

you are not smart man. sir.

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01-15-2015 , 01:00 PM

#13

Lattimer

I is smart

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 15,463

You're bumping a 6+ year old thread to insult a poster who hasn't logged on in over 2 years? Ok.................

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01-15-2015 , 06:20 PM

#14

callipygian

slowrolled by tpiranha!

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 19,880

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lattimer

You're bumping a 6+ year old thread to insult a poster who hasn't logged on in over 2 years? Ok.................

His witty retort will appear in 2017.

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01-15-2015 , 09:38 PM

#15

Lattimer

I is smart

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 15,463

I wonder whatever happened to Sheetwise.

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01-16-2015 , 11:17 AM

#16

FlyLikeABird

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,679

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lattimer

I wonder whatever happened to Sheetwise.

Probably read the Stanford Wong book and tried to bank Pai Gow for a living.

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01-19-2015 , 03:56 PM

#17

wahcheck

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 249

Just want to point something out; If you are referring to Pai Gow Poker, then you should say Pai Gow Poker.....PAI GOW is a different game played with black tiles which resemble big domino tiles, only with red and white dots or pips on them......however, it's the same principle......in order to win a hand, you have to win the front and the back hand.......In California Poker or Card rooms (which call themselves casinos nowadays) they have Pai Gow games and Pai Gow Poker games.........difference from regular or Indian casinos being that supposedly the house has no interest or part in the gambling; they are just charging a fee for you to gamble there....

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