Seems like this is a topic that comes up a lot and is usually about word play more than anything else (though there are some specific insights most of the argument is word play anyway).

The statement above is certainly debateable though. I've seen plenty of players who give huge action on one of the lines and never back it up. They certainly could give a little less action on the line, take some of the offered odds bet, and decrease their expected loss for their given handle. There's no reason that in practice the odds bet has to be on top of other action. Same way some people play a small line bet and then place a bunch of numbers but take no odds. They could do something like not place a couple of the outside numbers and take a little odds instead. Actually think that is quite common "in practice".

Again it's not a very interesting topic though. The insights into some different perspectives on a game offer a little but it always ends up being a pretty drawn out discussion especially for a topic that doesn't relate to advantage play.

Yep, makes sense. I'm pretty sure a couple of posters arguing about EV improving weren't looking at it that way.

At certain times at craps tables, the shooter will be on a roll. The people who are pressing their bets and taking full odds are the ones who make the money on hot rolls. Ask any craps dealer.

They'll also be the ones losing more when the game turns bad (until they shift their betting pattern). Odds just ups the variance for free. I'd suggest to a newb playing the lowest amt possible for the pass line, and then whatever amount of odds you feel comfortable with.

You're thinking about it all wrong. If you want to minimize your loss, play the minimum on the line. Then you have two options:

1) Increase the frequency you win, lose, and most important, get to bet money: Play the come, betting the minimum unit.
2) Increase the amount of money you win, lose (and get to bet) on the numbers you have covered: Add odds to your bets

You can do either one, or a combination of both. Stop thinking of percentages, because they don't go in your wallet.

Why do casinos offer match play coupons? Same with 10x odds. If these perks get you to the table and allow the casino to earn money from you, then they have succeeded. It's all about marketing. Not all techniques work the same with everyone. Magnitude of house edge for a given bet is almost completely meaningless, so long as they earn from you.

It's actually an extremely important consideration. The magnitude of the theoretical 'house edge', along with historical win and average pace of the game is what determines the minimum wager.

House edge is certainly one component.

Earn = bet size * frequency of bets * time of player at game * number of players * house edge.

Of course subtract operating costs, fixed and variable.

91% of Macau's casino profits are earned from Baccarat, a game known for low house edge.

The expected value of the free odds bet is exactly zero. Taking the free odds bet reduces the house edge in dollars not at all. However taking the free odds bet reduces the house edge as a percentage of the total bet. It also, of course, increases variance. In a negative EV game like craps, variance is the only thing that gives you a chance to win. so it could be argued that this is a good thing.

So, a $5 pass bet with $5 odds has exactly the same EV as a $5 line bet without odds, but a higher EV (smaller house edge) than a $10 pass line bet. If you want to bet more than the minimum pass line bet, it is better to put that money on the odds than it is to put in on the pass line.

T add to what I (and other posters) have said in this thread, The odds bet is the best bet on the craps table. It's worth nothing.

Define "worth" -- as opposed to "value" and "cost" ...

lol true odds just means that there is no edge................

how is that a +EV bet har har har har har har har har har har

lose money however you want... craps is fun...

the last time i was in AC some ******* bet several hundred on any 7 during my roll and hit

Should have hit him with the dice.

"Worth nothing" means (in my little saying, anyway) value is equal to zero.

At what cost?