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beginner craps question
Does the free odds bet have any effect on the house edge? I read that by taking the max odds, the house edge goes down slightly!
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Re: beginner craps question
Taking max odds is the best bet on the felt and is a must. Free odds are TRUE odds...like getting even money on a coin flip, or 51 to 1 you could guess the random card I pull out of a poker deck.
Always bet free odds to the max, even if you have to decrease your Line bet |
Re: beginner craps question
Taking the odds bets doesn't change your expected loss in absolute $. But since your total wagered is now higher with the same expected $ loss, the % is lower. So the answer to your question about reducing house edge needs to be qualified. Your negative EV for the bets already placed doesn't change at all, and the odds bets are just a coin flip, basically just more action.
The poster above implying that it is to your advantage to take maximum odds bets, is wrong, except perhaps for the "fun quotient" factor. It doesn't change your losses at all. It just allows you to put more money in play (risk more) and over time lose exactly the same amount as if you didn't take the odds. |
Re: beginner craps question
Suppose you wager $10 on the pass line. I think the expected house edge is 14.1 cents on that bet, or 1.41%. A point is made, so you get to place odds. Supposing the house offers 10X odds, you then place $100 bet on odds, which has a house edge of zero, because it is is "even money". You then have wagered a total of $110 with an expected loss of still 14.1 cents. So it looks like you only have a house edge of 14.1 cents / $110, or 0.12%. Even though all you've really done is added a 0% house edge bet to an existing 1.41% house edge bet.
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Re: beginner craps question
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Disagree with nearly all of this, deepstack below illustrates the point well regarding how important odds are and now much the house edge is decreased. OP give me an example of how much you normally bet on the line and I will illustrate EVERY possible outcome regardless of point. Will take a few minutes but what you learn will be well worth my time. Not backing up with odds is insane, give me an example or two, I will post all possible outcomes and you reach your own conclusion |
Re: beginner craps question
Yes, the combined house edge decreases as the amount of your free odds increases. Go to this page... scroll down to "Strategy" section... it lays out the combined house edge for levels of free odds:
http://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/ |
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You guys would say NO to these questions? |
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Maybe you could avoid being rude for a moment and dissect what is so foolish about my post |
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Some players might want to increase their variance and their action by putting more money in play just for excitement, and accepting the increased risk that entails. Some might not. But in no case is there any monetary advantage to any player making these bets. Their EV is unchanged, and they will lose the exact same amount of money over time as they would by not making these bets. Yes, the combined house edge is reduced, as I immediately explained in my first paragraph posted in this thread when I answered the OP's question. But in this case it's an illusion that this helps the player, unless you count the fun factor, and possibly comps/points. It's the exact same thing as if you are playing some other -EV game and while playing it you decide to put down 5x more units over here on the side with a guy who wants to flip coins for money, so you do both together to give you more stimulation. It has no effect on your winnings over time, but increases your variance and short term risk a lot. |
Re: beginner craps question
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Will address every point in your post. 1."your statement that it is best bet in the game" True odds is a bet with zero advantage to the house and zero advantage to the player. Is there a bet in dice that is actually +EV ? If not then my statement that this is the best bet in the game is correct. How is this incorrect? 2. "your repeated implication that this bet is advantageous to the player" How did I imply this at all?? My exact comment was " it is like getting even money in a coin flip or 51 to 1 that you could guess a random card I pull out of a poker deck." I could not be any clearer that true odds is EV. No edge to either party, both my examples make that clear. 3. Your advice to always bet odds to the max I Stand by this statement, it is the best bet on the table for the player, always paying more then the line bet and in some cases paying 100% more then the line bet. It gives the house no edge and decreases the percentage of risk your bets are laying dramatically |
Re: beginner craps question
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What does this have to do with the OP's question about the house edge on the free odds wager? |
Re: beginner craps question
I am not a statistician, so feel free to tell me where I am incorrect, but:
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If you had $1 million to bet at a craps session (or $1 billion or whatever giant number), would you be better off monetarily (not as a %, but actual $) if you made 40,000 $25 pass line bets or 396 (give or take) $25 pass line bets backed by 100x odds (assume you are at the Cannery). -EV in both spots, but the latter will lose you a lot less money. The variance will be MUCH much higher true, but the EV will be higher. |
Re: beginner craps question
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And contrary to your most recent assertions, you did firmly claim that OP should always take the odds bets "to the max" and that it is "a must". You said they were very important and well worth someone's time to learn. You said not taking these bets was "insane". You did NOT take a neutral position on them as you are trying to backtrack now. It's pretty clear you misunderstood these bets. It was not good advice for beginners. |
Re: beginner craps question
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I am not the one backtracking or repeatedly editing my posts. A person SHOULD take max odds. I did not bother explaining the painfully obvious point that if stakes are too high just lower your line bet accordingly. I was and still am giving the OP enough credit to understand that. As far as me misunderstanding the bets, what is there to misunderstand ?? The answer to OP's questions are yes yes yes. Whether you want to admit it or not is fine. Your answer to a beginner is the one that is vague and confusing . |
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Or maaaaaybe is a person's aversion to risk a factor in how they choose to gamble? |
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Double down maybe you should read original question again and not resort to a straw man argument. OP answer is still yes to your questions. Just so we are clear because it seems some posters felt that I was DEMANDiNG you put ALL your money at risk because it will decrease the Casinos overall against you. I give you enough credit to either decrease your line bet or just bet as much as you are comfortable playing the odds and not more then that. Oh and in case this needs to be mentioned dont bet your lifesavings on a hard eight. |
Re: beginner craps question
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You keep saying "over time", you lose exactly the same amount. Well, I guess if your definition of "over time" is "I'm going to gamble until I lose all my money" or even "I'm going to gamble until I lose $1000", well then yes, of course you'll lose exactly the same. But if "over time" means "I am going to wager an aggregate of $1 million in craps bets and then stop", then you will lose less if you are taking pass line-with-full odds than if you are betting straight pass line. I believe the latter is the proper way to analyze the "long run" when considering questions of house edge, EV, etc. |
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Because of all the misinformation already given in this thread, I'm sure the OP is totally confused now. Deepstacks and SheetWise get it. Read their posts. |
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I play craps alot and 5x odds is max where i play. i usually only take 3 times on 6 and 8 double on the 5 and 9 and if table is hot double on 4 and 10 |
Re: beginner craps question
theyre two different bets. quit trying to combine them. one has a HE of 1.41%. one has a HE of 0%. end of discussion.
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You're being disingenuous explaining it that way, when you in particular know absolutely that your EV doesn't change by taking the odds bets. You also know that house edge and EV are completely different things. |
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