6 decks, H17, DAS, Late Surrender, Peek

Wizard of Odds shows it's surrender/hit
http://wizardofodds.com/games/blackj...gy/calculator/

here it's surrender/stand

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bjbse.p...rr=ls&peek=yes

I guess the difference is quite small either way but one has to be more mathmatically correct. Which is it?

that is very interesting. I think it is an error on their site. I can not imagine that they say that you should stand against a 10 but hit against a 9. All of the casinos that I play in allow surrender but when I play where I can not surrender I stand against a 10.

There is practically no difference. Standing is slightly better, unless you take into account that you can't make 16 vs T without taking out some paint, at which point you should hit, but if you are taking into account EOR you might as well count cards or even better shuffle track. Off the top of a newly shuffled shoe 16vT is EV equal between hiting and standing but as the count gets higher it's less unprofitable to stand than to hit. Conversely as the count gets lower it's less unprofitable to hit than it is to hand. It's more profitable but it's still unprofitable.

Allow me to elucidate with reference to some mathematical tables located on bjmath :

http://www.bjmath.com/bjmath/ev/6dh17.htm

Hand Standing Hitting Doubling Splitting Probability
T,6 vs T -0.54095 -0.53468 -1.06935 -------- 0.014553

Actually, the Wizard recognizes it's a bit more complicated than his basic strategy chart lets on. See his first response here:

http://wizardofodds.com/ask-the-wizard/277/

As Simon notes, the difference is miniscule. Just the removal of one small card from the deck is enough to sway the math. So the Wizard says to stand if your 16 is made up of three or more cards.

thanks for the reply and the link to that interesting site, I haven't seen it before

No problem. There are a number of great blackjack resources online. Blackjack is a truly fascinating game. On the surface it is simple but that is a mere facade.

Actually, the difference between hitting and standing a 16 is smaller for a dealer 10 than it is for a 9, or for that matter an 8 or a 7.

The probability that you will bust when hitting 16 is the same for 7-10 upcards. The probability that the dealer will bust is, in fact, lower with the smaller upcards. However, the key to this somewhat counter-intuitive fact is that the probability of winning when you hit, and don't bust, goes down with the larger upcards. To over-simplify a bit, it is easier to beat a 17 than it is a 20. So, against a dealer 7, 8 or 9, hitting a 16 is the best (or least bad) option by a significant margin, but hitting a 16 vs. a dealer 10 is better by a very small margin, and standing is better with most three or more card combinations.

In general, 16 v 10 is a close call. Hit if you think there is a shortage of 10-cards left in the deck. Stand if you think there is a surplus of 10-cards left in the deck. You don't have to be counting cards. Just guess, based on whether you think there is a shortage or surplus of 10 cards (or conversely, a surplus or shortage of small cards) based on what has happened so far in the deck or shoe. This analysis applies equally to the other very close call, 12 v 2.

The "Wizard strategy you show is for Single Deck ... No surrender.

The "Blackjack Info" strategy you show is for Six Decks ... Surrender.

Adjust this and the strategies are the same.

No, that's just the default. Use the pulldown menus to go to "4 or more" decks and
H17, with surrender. The OP is right; but it's been explained by the subsequent posts.

That was my point. When you correct the "Wizard" strategy to 4 or more decks with surrender you get an identical strategy to "Blackjack Info."

You have Hard 16: Dealer shows 2-6 ... Stand
Dealer shows 7,8 ... Hit
Dealer shows 9,T,A ... Surrender

Same on both.

If you're not counting, flip a coin or guess.

It's the most common situation in the game where you can literally play your hunches and not give up any advantage.

??? Adjust the menus properly and the Wizard says "Rh", which means Surrender if available, otherwise hit. The other site says "RS", which means Surrender if available, otherwise stand. Which is what the OP reported. Use the links in his original post.

A 1% difference !

So if you have bet $10, the difference is all of a dime.

Not worth thinking about.

You find in blackjack the fractions of a % are quite important. Perhaps in life as well.

^^

This.