Where to Invest 50-100K? - Page 6

wil318466 · 07-29-2012, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tjmj90

Thread should be locked because no one here is discussing the OP's issues anymore it has evolved into a bunch of personal interest dick wagging about who's investment strategy is best blah blah blah, none of it at all relating to OP's situation

That's not true at all. No one is arguing who's investment strategy is best at all. Are you following the discussion?

wil318466 · 07-29-2012, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deeply Unhappy

1) Risk relativism is way overblown. Telling people that its okay to be crazy and accept way lower returns so "you can sleep at night" is silly. We should tell these people to correct their psychological views, not enable them to continually make poor financial decisions in the guise of having a unique circumstance

Can't do this. I thought the same thing, it simply doesn't work. You can't MAKE someone not worry. If they aren't comfortable, they simply aren't. There's nothing you can do about it. Besides, it's their money. I agree mostly, but I've learned not to talk people into thinking like me, it just doesn't work.

wil318466 · 07-29-2012, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oofRome

again, these numbers are meaningless without context. I don't think an advisor would be of any real value to you specifically, but to people who don't have the time or inclination to learn about all this stuff but still want to improve their financial situation, it is a different story. If the advisor gets a 30% cut on a 200% return that would otherwise never have been realized in the first place, yeah, eh. Would you rather pay taxes on a realized gain or write off a loss? you know what I mean?

Show me an advisor who brings back 200% above index and I'll show you a guy who's either a fraud or one of the world's richest people.

I'm saying there are no advisors worth their price. What will they do? Tell you to do passive periodic index investing and give them a %, or take huge risks and hopefully it works out so they can get their %.

Either way, its' a loss.

oofRome · 07-29-2012, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil318466

Show me an advisor who brings back 200% above index and I'll show you a guy who's either a fraud or one of the world's richest people.

I'm saying there are no advisors worth their price. What will they do? Tell you to do passive periodic index investing and give them a %, or take huge risks and hopefully it works out so they can get their %.

Either way, its' a loss.

You're not understanding me, Wil. The discussion someone brings to an advisor is hardly ever "should I continue to passively and periodically index or should I listen to you?".

samsonh · 07-29-2012, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil318466

No, he said no one saw it coming,implying that crashes are ever seen coming. That's why they are crashes.

You're a pretty smart guy. You know this is nonsense. I didn't ask how investors make mistakes - that's a given. I'm asking to show me any statistics that show advisors out perform passive periodical index investing.

Unless you're implying that the average investor can't learn how to do exactly what advisors do, which takes a few hours to learn. We've locked horns over this before, you know my position on advisors, I despise them. They often do what is in their best interest, not the clients, and it annoys the **** out of me whenever a person gives up a % of their hard-earned money for something so trivial. And 30% isn't exactly "Eh".

And why should the thread be locked? Because there is a difference of opinion? There's no ego here, there's an ongoing discussion with people who are adament about their positions.

There are many many examples of managers outpeforming a passive index on a 10+ year basis. Do a simple morningstar search in the category of your choice.

This thread is terrible. We have tons of different advice, half of which is simply insane.

Jason Strasser (strassa2) · 07-29-2012, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The1Kid

Quick Summary:

Married w/ 4 year old. Joint income is 165K will go up in a few years to 200K
Own home w/ 310K mortgage.....worth 300K
No CC debt, own 3 different cars & toys NO DEBT (wife has a small Student loan 8K?)
Have 30K joint savings and retirement is taken care of w/ PERS + Deferred Comp
I play small stakes live poker part-time (making $20hr) as a hobby that we use to go on vaction to hawaii or mexico in winter.

I have 100K in savings I brought into marriage and want to invest it. I did have a 35K mutual fund from 2003-2012 and ended up breaking even. I know nothing about stocks or bonds ect....Not to comfortable in financial markets cause i'm clueless.

Couple Ideas I had:
1) CD through bank make a small amount
2) Back in stocks
3) Buy rental home( could pick one up for 150K)
4) Enter WSOP and pray
5) Start a small business (my dream really)
6) We would like a bigger newer home closer to work, was thinking of renting ours and buying a new home and use the $$ as down payment. Seems like we would be buried in real estate though with no return.

Any other advice or ideas?

Nothing specific here, but great job with everything, you're in a great spot.

Best thing to do would be to bet on yourself. If you actually have an idea you believe in then start your own business. Don't just do it for the sake of doing it, though.

Beyond that, you should refi your mortgage to something with a fixed rate, I wouldn't pay that down if I were you.

I think a nice combination of high-yield bonds, mutual funds, and a little (10%?) exposure to gold would be the way to go. A couple ETFs are easy ways to get involved with high-yield bonds (DHY, JNK).

wil318466 · 07-29-2012, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oofRome

You're not understanding me, Wil. The discussion someone brings to an advisor is hardly ever "should I continue to passively and periodically index or should I listen to you?".

We're going in circles. I understand the point, but I've already said it's lol easy to learn exactly what advisors will tell you, so giving them a percentage of your returns is just shooting yourself in the foot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by samsonh

There are many many examples of managers outpeforming a passive index on a 10+ year basis. Do a simple morningstar search in the category of your choice.

Proof?

Jeff W · 07-30-2012, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The1Kid

Quick Summary:

Married w/ 4 year old. Joint income is 165K will go up in a few years to 200K
Own home w/ 310K mortgage.....worth 300K

You should pay off your mortgage and any other interest accruing debts instead of investing the money. Paying off your mortgage is the same as making an investment with a guaranteed risk-free, tax-free return = to your interest rate.

Deeply Unhappy · 07-30-2012, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil318466

Can't do this. I thought the same thing, it simply doesn't work. You can't MAKE someone not worry. If they aren't comfortable, they simply aren't. There's nothing you can do about it. Besides, it's their money. I agree mostly, but I've learned not to talk people into thinking like me, it just doesn't work.

I don't agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff W

You should pay off your mortgage and any other interest accruing debts instead of investing the money. Paying off your mortgage is the same as making an investment with a guaranteed risk-free, tax-free return = to your interest rate.

The debt he has has numerous benefits over a regular debt at the same interest rate. Saying this for home loans is inaccurate.

wil318466 · 07-30-2012, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deeply Unhappy

I don't agree.

This is deeply profound. I don't agree with your assessment. Where does that leave us?

If you don't think there are different risk-tolerances between different people, then I think the conversation is over.

Deeply Unhappy · 07-30-2012, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil318466

Can't do this. I thought the same thing, it simply doesn't work. You can't MAKE someone not worry. If they aren't comfortable, they simply aren't. There's nothing you can do about it. Besides, it's their money. I agree mostly, but I've learned not to talk people into thinking like me, it just doesn't work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil318466

This is deeply profound. I don't agree with your assessment. Where does that leave us?

If you don't think there are different risk-tolerances between different people, then I think the conversation is over.

The discussion was risk relativism based on cognitive bias and misunderstanding. You've gotten confused over the last few days.

People can change cognitive bias. If you don't think they can, whatever.

Malta PR · 07-30-2012, 09:50 AM

i dont know about stock markets or bonds ect.

i may know a bit about forex and thats all

If I would be you, i would open a business

the sandwich shop seems like a good idea, there is not high cost involved and im sure you dont need to invest full of your 100k there, so 20k-30k shld be enough

but thats roughly , I like to have invest money into soemthing i know people need and thats food and sex

Stock markets is not more as gambling, than its better you buy in for WSOP... thats the same thing if you want to gamble

spino1i · 07-30-2012, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masque de Z

That "ridiculous" advice would have saved intel corporation 250 mil $ in the method they do their stock buyback in 2011-2012. Market timing absolutely works. All i proposed is a careful conservative introduction to that realization so that our friend here will move to the real killer type of trading a few years later after first having created experience doing something responsible and stronger than buy and hope!

You pick a superstrong company that is established and has stupid low PE (which means its very hard to see it crash 50% meaning all else would be down 70% then) and sell puts on its deep declines with impunity while 50%+in cash typically. Then dare it to rally on you (call writing on rallies) and profit 2 ways. Why is that ridiculous? You profit both in flat and up markets and lose less than most others in down markets too with the potential that even in bad down markets eventually you recover!

This is my trading strategy (although I use slightly different mechnism). But rather than bet on stocks going up, I bet against stocks going down. These stocks must have clearly defined values. It makes money. It makes a LOT of money.

The best spot to be in the market is you win if the market goes up, and you win again if the market goes down!

4 of a KINDBUD · 07-30-2012, 06:21 PM

Interesting thread. Investing in general is still a worry right now. I like the idea of buying up some rental properties so you have income coming in each month, then of course you always have that property as an asset as well. Any thoughts?

SuperRu · 07-30-2012, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Strasser (strassa2)

Nothing specific here, but great job with everything, you're in a great spot.

Best thing to do would be to bet on yourself. If you actually have an idea you believe in then start your own business. Don't just do it for the sake of doing it, though.

Beyond that, you should refi your mortgage to something with a fixed rate, I wouldn't pay that down if I were you.

I think a nice combination of high-yield bonds, mutual funds, and a little (10%?) exposure to gold would be the way to go. A couple ETFs are easy ways to get involved with high-yield bonds (DHY, JNK).

Listen to this guy