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Old 04-25-2010, 12:42 PM   #136
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Re: What are the top 5 most common traits of people who have achieved financial freedom?

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People who believe luck is a significant factor are just trying to rationalize their own lack of success by attributing success to a force that is not under their agency.

With respect to winning the natural lottery and being either born in the western world or even just being born to privilege that is a straw man argument. Being born to privilege just means that we measure success relative to your starting point rather than in an absolute sense. With respect to being born in Africa we just change the definition of success where we substitute local alternatives such as access to fresh food, a car, a bigger mud hut whatever.

The claim that the IPod catching on was a matter of luck is funny. The reason the IPod caught on is because it was the best product. It was the best product because of appealing design and a new great interface. Those were all deliberate decisions and have nothing to do with luck.

The problem with the luck reasoning is that people always point to well if event X didn't happen so-and-so would never have become whatever as X was the defining moment that set everything in motion. What they fail to realize is that in the vast majority of cases if X had not happened Y would have happened and had the same role. Success is based on your choices -- the truly successful people I know if stripped of everything would be able to restart from nothing and establish themselves in a matter of years.
100% correct.
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Old 04-25-2010, 12:50 PM   #137
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Re: What are the top 5 most common traits of people who have achieved financial freedom?

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100% correct.
No.

The particular points Henry makes about success may or may not be correct, whatever.


But this line:

"People who believe luck is a significant factor are just trying to rationalize their own lack of success by attributing success to a force that is not under their agency."


...is just weak. Certainly many people who note the luck factor do it as a defense mechanism, but plenty of successful people also acknowledge the role of luck in their situations.

It's almost a reverse defense mechanism when you say that "my theory is X and anyone who believes otherwise is just a jealous member of the hoi polloi...unlike me".



The same point came up with Leatherass in some HSNL threads. The guy is super obnoxious and has many detractors but insists that they are all just jealous.

The extension of this logic is that it is impossible to criticize someone who is 'successful' for anything, because you will inevitably be motivated by jealousy.
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Old 04-25-2010, 01:02 PM   #138
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Re: What are the top 5 most common traits of people who have achieved financial freedom?

It isn't a theory. I don't consider outcomes that are not desert based as success -- so becoming rich by winning the powerball / 6-49 doesn't count as success. Removing those you'll find very few success stories are based on luck. The one exception being people who are successful in the entertainment / modelling industry.
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Old 04-25-2010, 01:07 PM   #139
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Re: What are the top 5 most common traits of people who have achieved financial freedom?

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It isn't a theory. I don't consider outcomes that are not desert based as success -- so becoming rich by winning the powerball / 6-49 doesn't count as success. Removing those you'll find very few success stories are based on luck. The one exception being people who are successful in the entertainment / modelling industry.

I would say this qualifies as a theory:

"What they fail to realize is that in the vast majority of cases if X had not happened Y would have happened and had the same role."



I'm not particularly opposed to this but it doesn't account for some significant subsets of successful people, like those who were pursuing some personal interest that happened to turn out to be extremely lucrative.
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Old 04-25-2010, 01:17 PM   #140
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Re: What are the top 5 most common traits of people who have achieved financial freedom?

Pursuing a personal interest that turns out to be extremely lucrative that wasn't known to have the potential to lucrative beforehand is a pretty rare phenomenon. I actually can't think of a single example so I'm curious if you can give one?
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Old 04-25-2010, 01:19 PM   #141
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Re: What are the top 5 most common traits of people who have achieved financial freedom?

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What you guys perceive as luck isn't really luck.

Perfect example : Do you think Google is lucky? Or do they work really hard to implement ideas?

Is Apple "Lucky"? Their stock went from 7 to 270. Luck?

Is Warren Buffett "lucky"? Hard to luckbox being the richest man in the world.

Don't get me wrong, being in the right place at the right time is *always* helpful. But putting yourself to be in position for that opportunity is part of "being lucky".

Just something to think about.
Apple was lucky for the founders who had no money and no assets. The 'other' founder had tangible assets that could have been lost. He chose to cash out his stock before 'luck' could cause him to go bankrupt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Wayne

You can't believe in good fortune without believing in bad fortune, they are both sides of the same coin.
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Old 04-25-2010, 01:25 PM   #142
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Re: What are the top 5 most common traits of people who have achieved financial freedom?

To reiterate, the OPs question is "What are the top 5 most common traits of people who have achieved financial freedom?"

I think what OP meant to ask is more along the lines of "what are the five most common personal characteristics / personality traits" of people who have become rich.

However, if read and answered literally, then without a doubt answers such as
1) being born in a 1st world country
2) being born & raised in a stable two parent family
3) being born in a middle to upper economic class household
4) being given a solid education

would all be relevant and in fact probably among the five most common traits of rich people. In fact, one could just as rationally argue that being born white and being born male would be the two most common traits. This would purely be a matter of statistics--are rich people in America primarily white and male or not?

If this was the question being asked then absolutely, luck based on birth bias (where & to whom on was born to) would have to be considered to be a HUGE determining factor in who ends up rich and who doesn't.

However, again, I don't think that's the question OP meant to ask.
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Old 04-25-2010, 01:48 PM   #143
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Re: What are the top 5 most common traits of people who have achieved financial freedom?

^

Yeah. Otherwise this doesn't even elevate to a level of discussion and regresses to "google/lock". The other stuff is far more interesting than pounding the luck table. While it may be true, it doesn't offer an insight on how to improve.
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Old 04-25-2010, 01:49 PM   #144
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Re: What are the top 5 most common traits of people who have achieved financial freedom?

Grunch.

I am financially free, and the #1 trait is luck.

Seriously I am lucky to be where I am, if I bought my business 18 months later I would be out of business, due to the credit markets drying up. Factors well outside of people's control matter far more.
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Old 04-25-2010, 02:07 PM   #145
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Re: What are the top 5 most common traits of people who have achieved financial freedom?

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^

Yeah. Otherwise this doesn't even elevate to a level of discussion and regresses to "google/lock". The other stuff is far more interesting than pounding the luck table. While it may be true, it doesn't offer an insight on how to improve.
Most successful people display the same traits but there are those who display those same traits and are not successful. Is there really a question as to which traits successful people display? Isn't it obvious?

Last edited by solsek; 04-25-2010 at 02:12 PM.
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Old 04-25-2010, 02:46 PM   #146
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Re: What are the top 5 most common traits of people who have achieved financial freedom?

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Pursuing a personal interest that turns out to be extremely lucrative that wasn't known to have the potential to lucrative beforehand is a pretty rare phenomenon. I actually can't think of a single example so I'm curious if you can give one?

It depends on how charitable you want to be on "that wasn't known to have the potential to be lucrative", but I think the Napster example fits.

The Lonely Planet Guides is another example off the top of my head. Was started by hippies for hippies with no aspiration of becoming a very profitable business, let alone a publishing empire.

Dungeons & Dragons.

Wite-out. (Meh on second thought just read the wiki story and the woman who invented this seemed rather savvy about it.)

I'm sure tons of inventions were made ad hoc rather than with an eye to being marketed (btw there is a ton of luck in the field of invention, people getting beaten out for patents rights by a week or whatever).

I dunno I suspect there are innumerable examples actually but this is not a topic I have read up on.


Keep in mind this point came up as a response to your argument that successful people would be successful regardless of the particular circumstances they happened to succeed in. So what's relevant is that sometimes people pursue a hobby or interest simply as a labor of love and it turns out to be extremely profitable.
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Old 04-25-2010, 02:49 PM   #147
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Re: What are the top 5 most common traits of people who have achieved financial freedom?

If one day I have enough money to stop working (around like 40-45 years old) and still have enough to play a bunch of sports,send my kids to school, travel at least once a year, have a nice 300k$ house (I don't live in a big city so 300k is pretty damn nice here) and live a middle class life just without the working 8-5 part I'll consider myself rich.

I dont care about BMW's and Mercedes Benz; nor do I care about Armani and Dom Pérignon. That **** is all worthless.
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Old 04-25-2010, 03:21 PM   #148
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Re: What are the top 5 most common traits of people who have achieved financial freedom?

OnWithTheShow, Your friends are psychopaths I wouldn't let them get too close if I were you
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Old 04-25-2010, 03:35 PM   #149
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Re: What are the top 5 most common traits of people who have achieved financial freedom?

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Originally Posted by Pride of Cucamonga View Post
1) being born in a 1st world country
2) being born & raised in a stable two parent family
3) being born in a middle to upper economic class household
4) being given a solid education
agree
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Old 04-25-2010, 03:56 PM   #150
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Re: What are the top 5 most common traits of people who have achieved financial freedom?

Micturition Man

You are confusing not fulling appreciating the value of something with luck. Luck would be spilling something on your hands and discovery Saccharine when you had no intention of doing so. Luck would be having a drug designed to treat hypertension angina pectoris fail but then realizing the subjects all had boners. Going to the airport to pick up your uncle in some insignificant airport and being discovered by Tom Ford because his private jet had to have an emergency landing.

Something like Napster he fully intended to create a file sharing program -- there is no luck involved. He had an idea for a cool way to share files and so wrote some software to implement it. Just because he didn't appropriate that what he was doing would be worth $200M doesn't mean that he lucked into it. He intentionally invented it.
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