Just as Apple tries to control where and how Apple products are sold and for what price, the car manufacturers and dealers try to do the same thing.

Apple can refuse to sell to you if they think you're an Ebay/CL whore, but once you have their stuff you can do whatever you want with it.

You might be deceiving the salesclerk when you tell him that the 5 Macbook Pros are for you and your brothers, but that is not illegal.

This IS a legitimate export business. This is how a lot of export businesses work. A lot of people are exporting luxury goods abroad because those goods are cheaper in the USA. For example, I've taken all sorts of items in my luggage while travelling (DSLRs, etc) for local people in foreign countries because those same items cost 2x the price over there. I don't think you realize just how many people are doing the exact same thing with all sorts of goods.

And yes, manufactures hate to be beat at their own game of pricing the same good differently across the world. But that doesn't make your actions illegal. The best they can do is stop selling to you - which is why people get banned and use strawmen.

This is the same thing, except with cars. I don't know about all the ins and outs and if it is structured properly, but it is most certainly a legitimate pursuit.

it says some makes such as mercedes. Mercedes in general does make you sign a "non-export agreement". that said mercedes does not sell to out of state buyers. they only sell with a geographical "area of influence", usually within 40 miles of your home. Therefore you must be an IN-state buyer. They will then collect sales tax and title the car for you. In those cases sales taxes are paid upfront.

bmw dealerships are different and vary from dealer to dealer, so does Ford, lexus, audi, land rover.

that said, we had a practicing attorney do some research on case law regarding the "nonexport agreement". he said it will cost the dealership more money to litigate the enduser than they could possibly recover in damages.

they'd have to spend money to litigate, have to actually win (there is no legal precedent for this type of thing in the courts), and then collect. given that the enduser is just small fish and the big fish is the broker, doesn't quite make sense to go after the little guy. who knows maybe to make an example of them but i doubt it.

just so you know, the non export agreement is also another way for dealers to "do due diligence" thereby showing to the manufacturer that they're not willingly try to export the cars.

also many of the dealerships i work with, the internet sales guys know we export the cars they don't give a ****. in fact one of them gets paid under the table for each car he sends our way. another one has a General Manager who has even more influence and sends a bunch of cars to our broker, that general manager gets 50/50 split on the profits of each car exported. obviously there's a conflict of interest there for that manager but exporting cars is a very common phenomenon.

my off putting demeanor is a result of my limited patience with certain individuals in this thread.
I certainly understand and don't mind the ''sensible objections" especially in the beginning of the thread. however, it's the same few individuals objecting to the same points that I've refuted ad nauseam. Baseless accusations while completely ignoring my cited sources that refutes their arguments.

Technically, bill of lading was NOT FALSIFIED. once the car is in the trucker's possession, it now belongs to the broker. We just reroute the destination.

if there was an audit of the CA dealer, then i don't know what would happen. imo why would the IRS go any further once they see an out of state purchase? out of state purchases are tax excempt from CA sales tax. if say the irs goes after the enduser, there are records of all exports with the freight forwarder who' s information is clearly backed by the US customs log of which cars have been shipped out.

What if I'm a real go-getter and can devote a whole 15 hours a month to this business? $5000 - $15000 per month might make it worthwhile to ignore my moral compass.

realistically maybe a few cars each month. the constraint is that dealerships don't always have the hot cars. dealerships that do have them a lot will not sell out of state. not to mention competition from other exporters trying to buy the same car. this all assumes that the purchase price allows everyone involved to make a reasonable profit.

all the work required of an enduser is to literally sign paperwork that is fedexed to you. realistically that takes less than 5 minutes.

http://www.maconcountytimes.com/page...ce=top_stories

just browsing reddit i found this article, look at how many people want to work for minimum wage. seems like so many people are struggling so hard to get by.

I cited a statute on the second page of the thread that you still haven't addressed. You skirted around the point and then offered an insult. Since people are beginning to take this seriously, I'll offer it again.

California Vehicle Code § 6162:
California Vehicle Code § 6161 defines "Owner" as thus:
From California DMV:
Here is the Reg 32 form that must be filled out and presented to the DMV to export a vehicle titled in California:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg32.pdf

If the vehicle is titled in California, and your "enduser" is the owner listed on the title, how do you plan to satisfy the requirement that the enduser appears in person at the DMV in California to submit the Reg 32 so that the vehicle title can be marked for export?

It's interesting to note that the legislature specifically stated their purpose for the § 6162 requirement in § 6160:

/inb4 "Moran! Due diligence! Moran! Due Diligence!"

what do you make of this link?

http://www.carsdirect.com/used-car-b...ars-for-export

under legal aspects?

It is not. There are legal requirements and licenses one must have. There are taxes on things for a reason, and the second a business tries to evade paying these taxes which are required, is the second they are not legitimate.

Seriously, why don't you just call the freight forwarder and find out?

ill answer anyways. Cars purchased out of state do not come with a title. Titles are given by the state where car will be registered. it comes with an MSO (manufacturer's statement of origin). this is equivalent to a title. it's all that is needed by the US customs to prove that there are no outstanding liens on the vehicle. if the car was for personal use, you would take the MSO to your local dmv and exchange it for a title in your own state as well as paying sales tax.

here we go again where i quote your own sources to refute your claim.

"(d) "Owner" means the owner of record indicated in a certificate of title issued by this state and includes an agent of that owner acting under a valid power of attorney executed by an owner.
"

guess who signs over their power of attorney? freight forwarder handles all the legal paperwork and US customs obligation.

additionally this doesn't even apply, because the car is never titled in california.

''The Legislature finds and declares that when vehicles are exported and their title records are not amended to reflect exportation, it is conducive to vehicle theft and insurance fraud.''

the records in this case are IN FACT AMENDED TO SHOW PROOF OF EXPORT. we pay a freight forwarder who handles and documents the entire exportation of the vehicle from the warehouse to the loading upon the ship. there is a log via US customs showing which vehicles identified via VIN# are leaving the country. no one is filing fake stolen insurance claims on these exported cars.

the business corporation is classified as an international auto broker.

you don't give up do you?

for the 9th time, cars destined for use outside of the state also including exports to foreign countries are sales tax exempt.

WTF is wrong with you? can you not read this?

http://www.boe.ca.gov/pdf/pub101.pdf



so far i see mainly 2 points brought up over and over.

false assumption #1: sales tax must be paid when purchasing a vehicle.
i've cited where it's sales tax exempt for vehicles exported out of the country. remember delivery has never taken place in California.

false assumption #2: false bill of lading is given to dealership when picking up car with a trucking company. there is nothing technically false about the bill
of lading. once the bill of lading is signed over to the trucker, the dealership releases ownership to the broker. the owner, (broker), now has
the right to reroute the destination of the vehicle to wherever he wants.

I will ask a very simple question which you have not answered:

Why does the buyer need to be located outside CA?

According to what you claim, as long as the car is being exported out of the country, no CA taxes are due. Thus, it should not matter if the buyer is located in CA or another state for sales tax purposes, yet your OP said that to avoid sales tax, you need non-CA buyers.

I've answered this question before.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...2&postcount=70

If i live in CA and tell the dealer i am exporting the car and they are willing to sell the car to me, then the car is sales tax exempt. However, there is a contractual policy between the dealer and the manufacturer to not sell to exporters or agents of an export company. Therefore the dealer will refuse to sell to me.

If I live in Nebraska and tell the dealer i am buying for personal use, the car is also sales tax exempt due to the delivery taking place outside of california. In this case the dealer has no reasonable knowledge to believe that I am an exporter. remember once the car is released to the transporter, the dealership has no right as to where the car goes or what it's used for. since the transporter doesn't actually deliver to the enduser but to another 3rd party warehouse no delivery has actually taken place until it goes overseas.

also it's not just "according to what I claim", it's what is cited on the BOE website.

i love this thread.

AFAIK none of the critics have even called up those exporter companies i linked to. doubt anyone's called a mercedes dealership to ask about exporters either.

im beginning to wonder if certain people are just leveling or trolling here.

I'm confused.

It seems like in one post you say that a title is obviously needed, but then you say that the car is never titled.

Which is it?